Concerns with rotary pens

Swiss · 30 Aug 2020

So I’ve been reading through some threads and have ended up with concerns regarding Pen style rotary machines.

Machine as reference is cnc q2, many being similar in design so same would apply.

Standard stuff really bag the pen, barrier film and grip tape over the adjustable grip portion, sounds right?
Using a cart with membrane is must again kinda obvious.
So far so good, where I have concerns though is, where the cart goes into the machine and the small edge around I can’t help but feel that is still an area open to contamination.

What are your thoughts on this? The machine after use would be wiped down and cleaned but do people autoclave the adjustable grip or what do you do?

MalligaMallan · 30 Aug 2020

You're absolutely right, that is an area open to contamination.

I would say no one autoclaves it today though? Most rotaries are probably not even autoclavable.

Most people uses disposable grips, but that doesn't prevent this. The hole where you plug in the cart is in the machine itself. You obviously have to be very careful not to contaminate that part, which means by no means touch it with your fingers (eventhough you wear gloves). And disinfect it with whatever you use for disinfection between every customer.

Swiss · 30 Aug 2020

MalligaMallan said:
You're absolutely right, that is an area open to contamination.

I would say no one autoclaves it today though? Most rotaries are probably not even autoclavable.

Most people uses disposable grips, but that doesn't prevent this. The hole where you plug in the cart is in the machine itself. You obviously have to be very careful not to contaminate that part, which means by no means touch it with your fingers (eventhough you wear gloves). And disinfect it with whatever you use for disinfection between every customer.

Thanks for the response. Pretty much confirming what I thought.
Kinda puts me off the pen style a touch to be honest.
Would probably feel cleaner and safer with something like a dragonfly machine or what ever using disposable cartridge grips.

I understand that barrier film over the very end can make for a solid covering at that end and good membrane again help but changing carts is where I’d feel at biggest risk of contamination occurring.

MalligaMallan · 30 Aug 2020

Personally I felt most uncertain with the membranes that can fail even if it's not that common. I now have the Inkmachines Scorpion (same brand as Dragonfly) pen style, but with their own carts with a solid shell = no need for a membrane.

You still have the risk of contamination, but you have to be pretty clumsy to be touching the part you shouldn't touch. But these carts (Neocarts) are much easier to "click in" too, than other carts.

Tris · 9 Sep 2020

MalligaMallan said:
Personally I felt most uncertain with the membranes that can fail even if it's not that common. I now have the Inkmachines Scorpion (same brand as Dragonfly) pen style, but with their own carts with a solid shell = no need for a membrane.

You still have the risk of contamination, but you have to be pretty clumsy to be touching the part you shouldn't touch. But these carts (Neocarts) are much easier to "click in" too, than other carts.
[/QUOTE
How do you guys clean your grips after?
I usually take mine off the pen wipe with 70% alcohol. I never touch the hole when i change the carts i always hold them on the tip when i push them in. Is a normal disinfectant ok if i maybe soak in in that for about half hour then wash off?

Ronan73 · 9 Sep 2020

really you should either sterilise your grips or throw them away..as in disposable grips. Otherwise youll have to invest in a very expensive autoclave to guarantee no cross contamination.

And to try and answer the gaps in the pen question. first id say its a very very big expensive industry so the pen style must be safe enough. But try using electrical tape over the gap, peel off and throw away after every use. I know its not perfect but its better than worrying about it. Blood, plasma and funk could also go up a tube on a coil machine too.

And while cleanliness is vital I always think.....tattooing in this modern form has been around for 130 yrs but paranoid cleaning only in very recent history......and yet, there were not swathes of the populous dropping down dead of some deadly tattoo disease for 130yrs either.

Personally i believe....Clean, clean, clean and dont be an idiot, no need for paranoia.

Tris · 9 Sep 2020

Ronan73 said:
really you should either sterilise your grips or throw them away..as in disposable grips. Otherwise youll have to invest in a very expensive autoclave to guarantee no cross contamination.

And to try and answer the gaps in the pen question. first id say its a very very big expensive industry so the pen style must be safe enough. But try using electrical tape over the gap, peel off and throw away after every use. I know its not perfect but its better than worrying about it. Blood, plasma and funk could also go up a tube on a coil machine too.

And while cleanliness is vital I always think.....tattooing in this modern form has been around for 130 yrs but paranoid cleaning only in very recent history......and yet, there were not swathes of the populous dropping down dead of some deadly tattoo disease for 130yrs either.

Personally i believe....Clean, clean, clean and dont be an idiot, no need for paranoia.

Hi ok thanks i will try that dunno why i didnt think of that.
So to answer my question achohol and disinfectant should be good to clean the pen grips after use you reckon?

Ronan73 · 10 Sep 2020

Tris said:
Hi ok thanks i will try that dunno why i didnt think of that.
So to answer my question achohol and disinfectant should be good to clean the pen grips after use you reckon?

IM afraid not. Sanitise and sterilise are two different things. If you can get 99% alcohol then thats better but still not sterile. Attached is a short list of scary sh!t you definitely should be concerned about.

Just google or duck duck go "infection control" and you will find millions of websites dedicated to stopping d!ckheads killing themselves..lol.

Think safely my friend. You dont need an autoclave nowdays but you do need to throw away as much as possible after every single tattoo without question. It seems expensive, but what is yours and your clients health worth?

Sorry pic is so big.lol

MalligaMallan · 10 Sep 2020

Ronan73 said:
If you can get 99% alcohol then thats better but still not sterile.

I agree with Ronan in all he says, except for the quote above. It is NOT better with 99% alcohol/disinfectant because it evaporates faster than diluted alcohol/disinfectant.

The surface you clean shall stay wet some time (a couple of minutes or so) after, to kill as many bacterias and such as possible. If it evaporates too quickly this won't happen.

Tommy.86 · 10 Sep 2020

Swiss said:
So I’ve been reading through some threads and have ended up with concerns regarding Pen style rotary machines.

Machine as reference is cnc q2, many being similar in design so same would apply.

Standard stuff really bag the pen, barrier film and grip tape over the adjustable grip portion, sounds right?
Using a cart with membrane is must again kinda obvious.
So far so good, where I have concerns though is, where the cart goes into the machine and the small edge around I can’t help but feel that is still an area open to contamination.

What are your thoughts on this? The machine after use would be wiped down and cleaned but do people autoclave the adjustable grip or what do you do?

I use a pen machine, Rambo pen, and as with the other pens I see your point about the exposed rim. The method I use is to use a clip cord cover, leave an overhang that can double back on the pen and tape up with medical tape so that the bag covers the end of the pen. Then to put the cartridge in, pierce the cover. Make sure it’s not wrapped too tight as it might tear too much. When the cartridge is in, none of the rim is left exposed. Hope this helps ?

Ronan73 · 10 Sep 2020

sorry pic is so big.lol

MalligaMallan said:
I agree with Ronan in all he says, except for the quote above. It is NOT better with 99% alcohol/disinfectant because it evaporates faster than diluted alcohol/disinfectant.

This is true but I wouldn't use it on my machines for risk of water damage hence recommending 99%. But I did also say it still wont sterilise grips or tubes either.
Like Malin said, watered down correctly its great for cleaning but not sterilising grips.

Jerry7297 · 10 Sep 2020

Mada-cide is an alternative to Alcohol. This is widely used in the tattoo industry.

Disinfectant Cleaner

www.madamedical.com

TexasPT · 10 Sep 2020

That’s what I use

Pzychotixx · 10 Sep 2020

yeah i use the madacide wipes and wipe the inside of the cartridge part and use a q tip to really root around the inside

Tris · 11 Sep 2020

Pzychotixx said:
yeah i use the madacide wipes and wipe the inside of the cartridge part and use a q tip to really root around the inside

Is that all you do to clean it? After u do that is it ready for the next person? Or do u have another step?

Tris · 11 Sep 2020

I found this stuff it says you can disinfect the grip in 10 mins whiles in the solution and sterilization occurs in 30 mins if left in the solution?

Has anybody used this before?

Tris · 11 Sep 2020

Tommy.86 said:
I use a pen machine, Rambo pen, and as with the other pens I see your point about the exposed rim. The method I use is to use a clip cord cover, leave an overhang that can double back on the pen and tape up with medical tape so that the bag covers the end of the pen. Then to put the cartridge in, pierce the cover. Make sure it’s not wrapped too tight as it might tear too much. When the cartridge is in, none of the rim is left exposed. Hope this helps ?

Cheers mate i tried it out and it works great. I will also get some barrier film to put over it just foe peice of mind. Do you mind me asking how do u clean the grip to get it ready for your next customer? Im just curious about what works for others?

Dazza · 11 Sep 2020

hope this helps

Swiss · 22 Sep 2020

Awesome response. Thanks for all the input

Tommy.86 · 26 Sep 2020

Tris said:
Cheers mate i tried it out and it works great. I will also get some barrier film to put over it just foe peice of mind. Do you mind me asking how do u clean the grip to get it ready for your next customer? Im just curious about what works for others?

Yeah sure, I carefully remove all wrapping making sure I don’t touch any of the grip or machine, then clean with dettol wipes making sure to get in every possible area. I then spray the whole station, power supply and the pen and grip with anti bac and leave for a few minutes before wiping again

Concerns with rotary pens

Swiss

MalligaMallan

Swiss

MalligaMallan

Tris

Ronan73

Tris

Ronan73

MalligaMallan

Tommy.86

Ronan73

Jerry7297

Disinfectant Cleaner

TexasPT

Pzychotixx

Tris

Tris

Attachments

Tris

Dazza

Swiss

Tommy.86

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