First fake skin trials

ElenaY · 8 May 2023

So today I did my first doodle on the piece of fake skin (yellow noname rubber) and oh my I love pencils so much more!

I used 5RL and it was barely leaving any trace on 8+ volts so I had to go over the line a few times and it's still doesn't look how it's supposed to.
I don't think I needed bolder liner at this tiny piece, so should I push the needle in? I use pressure I thought was average, it didn't go deeper than 1.5 but I thought it wasn't that superficial. And I tried to be slow enough.
So right now I think I should concentrate on simple lines exercises until I get it, but the main question is - should I push more or change something else?

whippet · 8 May 2023

There are huge differences in the quality of fake skins. A lot of awful producers started copying th packaging of some goof (affordable) stuff and I got burnt a few times receiving this virtually unworkable stuff.

The answer, unfortunately in economic terms, is to but from a reputable brand like Reelskin ( I can testify to the good quality a dn ‘workability’ of this, and Pound of Flesh, though I have not personally used this second brand.

Reelskin sell bags of off cuts by weight, and if budget is an issue, I’d recommend this route.

ElenaY · 8 May 2023

I ordered some Reelskin on the Amazon, they will be here in about a week, so I'm impatiently waiting. As for the off cuts, where can I find these?
I saw pound of flesh sells discounted items with minimal damage, but looks like they are sold the minute they hit the market

whippet · 8 May 2023

ElenaY said:
I ordered some Reelskin on the Amazon, they will be here in about a week, so I'm impatiently waiting. As for the off cuts, where can I find these?
I saw pound of flesh sells discounted items with minimal damage, but looks like they are sold the minute they hit the market

This is the UK link. I’m not sure what their international distribution network is outside of UK…sorry.

1kg of Reelskin product 2nds £29.99 – Store – Reelskin

1kg of Reelskin 2nds ideal to practice on but just not the correct shape or consistancy of a first grade sale. May contain sheets or off cuts.

reelskin.co.uk

ElenaY · 8 May 2023

whippet said:
This is the UK link. I’m not sure what their international distribution network is outside of UK…sorry.

1kg of Reelskin product 2nds £29.99 – Store – Reelskin

1kg of Reelskin 2nds ideal to practice on but just not the correct shape or consistancy of a first grade sale. May contain sheets or off cuts.

reelskin.co.uk

Thank you very much. I have just placed an order and we'll see how its going to work.

MirandM · 9 May 2023

Be aware of the fact that Amazon does sell fake products. They do not guarantee the authenticity of the product, especially when the product is provided by an external seller.

Now about the fake skin in general. What I do whenever I buy fake skin is a number of test patches.
Those are:
- various types of horizontal and vertical lines in different thicknesses
- some shading rectangles, in different densities and some stippled
- some color fill-in patches
Doing this will give you a great idea of how the fake skin reacts and what your ideal settings should be to use it.
Fake skin is not real skin as it doesn't have the layered structure of real skin nor the variation in thickness. The skin on your hands is much thinner than the one on your butt, so blowouts appear much faster.
Personally (and I know others do too) I never use fake skin on a flat surface, I always wrap it around some body part like an arm or leg.
Fake skin is great for getting a good sense of hand speed but the curves of a body make that much more complex than a flat table top.
Your designs will ALWAYS be different on real skin, no matter what you do, so don't get hung up on fake-skin failures.

ElenaY · 9 May 2023

MirandM said:
Be aware of the fact that Amazon does sell fake products. They do not guarantee the authenticity of the product, especially when the product is provided by an external seller.

Now about the fake skin in general. What I do whenever I buy fake skin is a number of test patches.
Those are:
- various types of horizontal and vertical lines in different thicknesses
- some shading rectangles, in different densities and some stippled
- some color fill-in patches
Doing this will give you a great idea of how the fake skin reacts and what your ideal settings should be to use it.
Fake skin is not real skin as it doesn't have the layered structure of real skin nor the variation in thickness. The skin on your hands is much thinner than the one on your butt, so blowouts appear much faster.
Personally (and I know others do too) I never use fake skin on a flat surface, I always wrap it around some body part like an arm or leg.
Fake skin is great for getting a good sense of hand speed but the curves of a body make that much more complex than a flat table top.
Your designs will ALWAYS be different on real skin, no matter what you do, so don't get hung up on fake-skin failures.

Thank you very much for these advices. I'll try testing it out the way you suggested, sounds like a good idea.
As for the amazon, yes they do sell fakes sometimes but Reelskin in UK take no responsibility if package wouldn't reach me, it sounds not much optimistic, considering the fact that our customs like to make things "disappear"

Since I placed orders from both Amazon and UK site, hopefully I'll be able to compare the quality of two and see if it matches and I hope it does

ElenaY · 9 May 2023

And quite interesting thing - yesterday I compared cheapest Chinese machine with Cheyenne on my luxurious piece of skin - both performed about the same with Chinese's grip being more comfortable and machine lighter overall

I understand that difference in the long run shouldn't be obvious, but it just proves that sometimes being a beginner you can really start simple

MirandM · 10 May 2023

ElenaY said:
And quite interesting thing - yesterday I compared cheapest Chinese machine with Cheyenne on my luxurious piece of skin - both performed about the same with Chinese's grip being more comfortable and machine lighter overall
I understand that difference in the long run shouldn't be obvious, but it just proves that sometimes being a beginner you can really start simple

You'd be surprised how many good and reliable cheap machines there are.
On this forum you can find a thread about a disposable machine (yes, meant for one-time use). I bought one and reviewed it, I believe I posted that review. Unbelievable machine, dirt cheap, super light, and absolutely able to do far more than one tattoo, still have it and sometimes use it too.
Of the cheap pen machines on Alixp (you know) I can vouch for the Rocket brand, decent built aluminum machines, reliable and easy to use, excellent quality for the price.

Sorry to hear about your country's customs tactics. Best thing to do against that is to ask a seller for certified shipping, that is, shipping with a tracking nr and requiring a signature for delivery. Normally those shipments go through a secure handling channel where "disappearing" acts are far more difficult and in fact can be traced back. It is more expensive so you have to weigh the extra costs against the value of the package.

Note: just found the thread about the disposable machine: here

ElenaY · 10 May 2023

Oh wow thank you. I never knew such things exist!
And yes, cheap machine I tried was exactly Rocket. I love how the grip feels on it, so I might try bubbly single use Cheyenne grip to see if it feels same comfortable in hand

ElenaY · 22 May 2023

So I've got some Reelskin and you guys were right - it's a different experience. I just made a late night doodle on it with 5RL.
It wasn't much work, but my fingers feel funny because of the machine vibration, so I'll try wrapping it next time. And probably will use thicker liners because I hate going over it so many times.
Oh and I definitely should train in applying stencil because I've lotlst this one so snake's face looks funny

I mean, it's not limited to the face, don't get me wrong. Feeling like I'm back to kindergarten drawing classes

MalligaMallan · 23 May 2023

Exactly what I always say - I feel like a five year old

It's a nice effort, you just keep on experimenting. You'll get there.

About the stencil. Do you clean the sheet thoroughly with first detergent, water and dish brush? Then wipe thoroughly with alcohol/disinfectant? Then apply stencil solution, then spread talc powder on it, mix it with your fingers and spread it evenly on the surface. THEN apply the stencil. Do you do all that?

ElenaY · 23 May 2023

MalligaMallan said:
Exactly what I always say - I feel like a five year old It's a nice effort, you just keep on experimenting. You'll get there.

About the stencil. Do you clean the sheet thoroughly with first detergent, water and dish brush? Then wipe thoroughly with alcohol/disinfectant? Then apply stencil solution, then spread talc powder on it, mix it with your fingers and spread it evenly on the surface. THEN apply the stencil. Do you do all that?

Oh. I bet you know the answer

Thank you for the detailed instructions, I'll try to do better next time

whippet · 23 May 2023

Those lines like really thick for a 5RL, unless you’ve sculpted them (multiple passes). Just to say that if you’re getting a line that thick with a 5RL you’re definitely too deep and the lines will blow out everywhere. If on the other hand you are sculpting them, with a 5RL you are very very likely to get keloid (raised) scarring on the healed skin.

Set you’re line thickness with the needle group size, not your depth, which should remain consistent. To get full saturation on skin and fake skin, you need to sync your hand speed to the machine speed, keeping in mind that for each different technique (lining, packing (black), packing (color) stipple, pendulum, whipping) a set of safe speed parameters exists. As a beginner it is better to follow the general guidance on speed, so as not to damage the skin. Use fake skins to master the control of your machine putting ink into a surface.

If you are using reel skin, you shouldn’t need to put much (if any) pressure to get the ink in, it is very soft like a lot of human skin. I’ve been tattooing a fair few knees recently so not all skin is soft.

Keep up the practise, there can be moments when it feels tough or unattainable, but other moments when a concept just clicks into place in practise…and you;ve mastered another part.

ElenaY · 23 May 2023

whippet said:
Those lines like really thick for a 5RL, unless you’ve sculpted them (multiple passes). Just to say that if you’re getting a line that thick with a 5RL you’re definitely too deep and the lines will blow out everywhere. If on the other hand you are sculpting them, with a 5RL you are very very likely to get keloid (raised) scarring on the healed skin.

Set you’re line thickness with the needle group size, not your depth, which should remain consistent. To get full saturation on skin and fake skin, you need to sync your hand speed to the machine speed, keeping in mind that for each different technique (lining, packing (black), packing (color) stipple, pendulum, whipping) a set of safe speed parameters exists. As a beginner it is better to follow the general guidance on speed, so as not to damage the skin. Use fake skins to master the control of your machine putting ink into a surface.

If you are using reel skin, you shouldn’t need to put much (if any) pressure to get the ink in, it is very soft like a lot of human skin. I’ve been tattooing a fair few knees recently so not all skin is soft.

Keep up the practise, there can be moments when it feels tough or unattainable, but other moments when a concept just clicks into place in practise…and you;ve mastered another part.

Thank you very much for your input. Yes, they were multiple passes. I will definitely try thicker groups next time and will try to correct the voltage. For this one I was starting at 7 but eventually raised up to 8.2 if I'm not mistaken. I'm trying to slow the hand speed - that might be an issue as well, of course.

whippet · 24 May 2023

I’m on repeat again (sorry): Voltage doesnt mean that much as different motors run at different speeds with the same voltage settings. You need to work out how many times your needle is hitting the skin per second (HZ or also called CPS (Cycles per Second). You want to be lining at around 115/120Hz. You can use a guitar tuner to work it out if your machine data sheet doesn't tell you.

ElenaY · 24 May 2023

whippet said:
I’m on repeat again (sorry): Voltage doesnt mean that much as different motors run at different speeds with the same voltage settings. You need to work out how many times your needle is hitting the skin per second (HZ or also called CPS (Cycles per Second). You want to be lining at around 115/120Hz. You can use a guitar tuner to work it out if your machine data sheet doesn't tell you.

Thank you, I was just reading about these topics on forum tonight and you made it even easier bringing both numbers and video together. I was trying to calculate approximate voltage by machine specs, to reach 115Hz and it was at the level 10.6. Guitar tuner pulled it to 11, so I should be lining between 11 and 11.5

definitely nowhere close to where I've been, so I'll try again with the correct speed and bigger needle group

ElenaY · 24 May 2023

whippet said:
I’m on repeat again (sorry): Voltage doesnt mean that much as different motors run at different speeds with the same voltage settings. You need to work out how many times your needle is hitting the skin per second (HZ or also called CPS (Cycles per Second). You want to be lining at around 115/120Hz. You can use a guitar tuner to work it out if your machine data sheet doesn't tell you.

And since I've seen that you are using Bishop Packer and it has about the same frequency to voltage ratio as my machine, does it mean your lining voltage is in about the same range?

whippet · 24 May 2023

I don’t know how close our machines are mapped in Volts to Hz. I line from 7.5 - 8.5, higher for bigger needle groupings, as a general rule. I sometimes use power liners and open liners (different to hollows) that need a bit more punch.

I mapped the V to Hz on my 4 main machines, see the file. Just notice how different they are. I also mapped a clone and it was super fast at 7v, enough to damage skin, so best not to assume. Experience will enable you to find the right speed without knowing the precise Hz number, but having the date available is also useful.

ElenaY · 24 May 2023

whippet said:
I don’t know how close our machines are mapped in Volts to Hz. I line from 7.5 - 8.5, higher for bigger needle groupings, as a general rule. I sometimes use power liners and open liners (different to hollows) that need a bit more punch.

I mapped the V to Hz on my 4 main machines, see the file. Just notice how different they are. I also mapped a clone and it was super fast at 7v, enough to damage skin, so best not to assume. Experience will enable you to find the right speed without knowing the precise Hz number, but having the date available is also useful

ElenaY · 24 May 2023

That's an interesting table, thank you for sharing. Now I'm sure that I have been mistaken because can't find those Bishop numbers I thought I have seen.
I have Cheyenne Hawk Pen Unio, just so I could explore the effects of stroke difference once I'll be ready to notice any. And the frequency range is 50-140 with same applied to voltage being 6-12.6. Of course, experience will be the best advisor here but at least I can see some directions now.
One more time, thank you guys for sharing your time and experience here

ElenaY · 6 Jun 2023

This is my attempt to draw lines in one pass. Absolutely can't say I'm satisfied with result because depth is not consistent and I'm still figuring how to set my hand in order to have more stability and thus more straight lines (I even tried a thicker grip this time). So even though I see a little progress, it's not what I'll tap myself on the shoulder for.
BUT I've got a cute package with 5kg (

)of reel skin in it to try to change the situation before completely giving up

Big Pete · 6 Jun 2023

Definately some wonky lines there and looks like your depth is not consistant.... (top of the dagger and dagger handle and bottom right hand leaf are very noticable) I would also make sure that your lines join (a few of the lines in the petals end just short of where they should)
Keep practicing, it will all come together.....Instead of doing a big design like this, try stencilling lots of short lines, triangles, circles, stars etc all the same size and then see if you can tattoo all of them with the same consistancy.

ElenaY · 6 Jun 2023

Big Pete said:
Definately some wonky lines there and looks like your depth is not consistant.... (top of the dagger and dagger handle and bottom right hand leaf are very noticable) I would also make sure that your lines join (a few of the lines in the petals end just short of where they should)
Keep practicing, it will all come together.....Instead of doing a big design like this, try stencilling lots of short lines, triangles, circles, stars etc all the same size and then see if you can tattoo all of them with the same consistancy.

Thank you, I will try it

MalligaMallan · 7 Jun 2023

DO NOT GIVE UP!!! You've hardly started!

And I agree with Pete, just play around, get acquainted with your machine, ink, needles. We've all felt like 5 years olds when first starting out. It can be really frustrating. Your attempt is okay for a newbie, not better, not worse than any other newbie. Keep it up!

Also - doing single pass lines on any fake skin can be very, very tricky. Don't be too obsessed with managing that.

ElenaY · 7 Jun 2023

MalligaMallan said:
DO NOT GIVE UP!!! You've hardly started! And I agree with Pete, just play around, get acquainted with your machine, ink, needles. We've all felt like 5 years olds when first starting out. It can be really frustrating. Your attempt is okay for a newbie, not better, not worse than any other newbie. Keep it up!

Also - doing single pass lines on any fake skin can be very, very tricky. Don't be too obsessed with managing that.

Thank you so much for the support

it means a lot

First fake skin trials

ElenaY

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1kg of Reelskin product 2nds £29.99 – Store – Reelskin

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1kg of Reelskin product 2nds £29.99 – Store – Reelskin

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