Beginners Questions and Issues

learner · 17 May 2021

Howdy,

1. What volts should beginners line at? and what volts for shading?

2. Bought my friends hawk like pen machine and had an issue starting it up. Tried pushing my angled RCA cable down more and suddenly it turned on but the cable disconnects very easily with minimum force, feels like it doesnt lock in place and it’s a well known brand cable. Is this a common problem with certain brands of cable or something else? How can I fix this issue? I also tried to get a stereo system RCA cable to see if it will be loose or not but it fitted tight. :/

Dazza · 17 May 2021

Just cut the old rca off and put a new one on ,you can get them from all electronic stores ,just need a soldering iron and some heat shrink

learner · 17 May 2021

I’m not sure I had a look at my RCA cable and it does not go all the way in. I can still see the gold plate hanging out. Anyone know what wrong?

DKJ · 17 May 2021

For the lining speed, you should try at a slow speed and pushing volts up to match your hand speed.
Better start soft and see where more volts become too much volts.
All machines and tattoers have their own sweet spot for lining, and in my case the number of volts also depends on the skin type and the area i'm tattoing.
If you're into fake skin, you may wait for others' advice, because i have no experience in the field.

Peace,

DKJ

KyleBl4ck · 17 May 2021

learner said:
1. What volts should beginners line at? and what volts for shading?

2. Bought my friends hawk like pen machine and had an issue starting it up. Tried pushing my angled RCA cable down more and suddenly it turned on but the cable disconnects very easily with minimum force, feels like it doesnt lock in place and it’s a well known brand cable. Is this a common problem with certain brands of cable or something else? How can I fix this issue? I also tried to get a stereo system RCA cable to see if it will be loose or not but it fitted tight. :/

1. It depends on the skin, you'll learn overtime how to monitor depth and saturation within the skin. The voltage usually depends on your machine and most machines come with instructions on what voltage is best for them. "Most anyway".

2. The machine is probably old and the RCA input has most likely stretched / bent over time. I had this happen with a Dragonhawk and had to switch to a new machine. Theres really no way to fix this on cheaper machines without damaging them a bit. So I can't really recommend doing it but you can fix it by squeezing the RCA input. [Not recommended as it may cause contact issues.]

learner · 19 May 2021

KyleBl4ck said:
1. It depends on the skin, you'll learn overtime how to monitor depth and saturation within the skin. The voltage usually depends on your machine and most machines come with instructions on what voltage is best for them. "Most anyway".

2. The machine is probably old and the RCA input has most likely stretched / bent over time. I had this happen with a Dragonhawk and had to switch to a new machine. Theres really no way to fix this on cheaper machines without damaging them a bit. So I can't really recommend doing it but you can fix it by squeezing the RCA input. [Not recommended as it may cause contact issues.]

But I tried using a normal stereo RCA the one with red and white heads just to test and it fitted tight and didn’t come loose.

Could it be that the RCA cable brand does not properly fit my machine? And maybe other brands will?

KyleBl4ck · 19 May 2021

learner said:
But I tried using a normal stereo RCA the one with red and white heads just to test and it fitted tight and didn’t come loose.

Could it be that the RCA cable brand does not properly fit my machine? And maybe other brands will?

I mean yea always check your cord, but I have no idea on other brands fitting.

Burt · 19 May 2021

Why not just cut off the end and join the wires and use the one you have that fits. If your not using it for anything else.... Or get a new end that fits and test it. I'm sure you can get an RCA connector for less than a dollar.

dirtnail · 19 May 2021

Since you mention a hawk like pen machine i assume you are asking about rotary machine volts...

1. there's no such thing as "THE" best volt... it depends on a lot of variables like volt range of the machine, skin type, hand speed, stretch, needle type... all sort of things. In general you could probably say more volts for lining, less for shading. But in the end, it mostly comes down to personal preference and finding what works for you.

When you feel your stretch is good and the lines aren't crisp, more volts could help.
When the ink doesn't go in and you get red bloody line instead... probably too much volts.

Tattooing is something you learn by doing... so get some practice skins and get cracking

learner · 19 May 2021

I had a look on Amazon and there mainly selling 1/4 jack to RCA but the RCA comes with the red and white cables. Is this fine to use?

Or if I don’t want to buy another cable since I don’t know which will fit. Could I just buy a RCA female to RCA male head adaptor and plug it in to my rca cable that didn’t fit?

learner · 20 May 2021

https://imgur.com/a/tn04dUR

These are some pictures of the RCA Adaptors I got from Jaycar. Thinking of plugging my rca cable that didn’t work on my machine into these adaptors.

I have a question - Are these adaptors safe to use on expensive machine? And will there be a difference in performance or anything?

Burt · 20 May 2021

Others will know alot more but personally I can't see why it wouldn't be safe. As for performance? Dunno. But as long as the power stays stable I don't see any issues. But also I don't have much income so I make alot of things myself and not very well. Sounds like there's some proper machine' builders and people clued up on electrics on here who can give you the right answer. I would give it a shot(but I don't have expensive machines to worry about)

Cyberthrasher · 20 May 2021

As long as the ground is connected right inside the RCA end you should be able to run any RCA cable. The only problem you'll have with adapters is that every connector brings a little bit of signal loss. These look good enough though and you're not going to notice a lot if anything with a single adapter. Really though, your original RCA cable should work so it'd be interesting to know why and if maybe you just got a bad one and should return it.

MirandM · 21 May 2021

learner said:
https://imgur.com/a/tn04dUR

These are some pictures of the RCA Adaptors I got from Jaycar. Thinking of plugging my rca cable that didn’t work on my machine into these adaptors.

I have a question - Are these adaptors safe to use on expensive machine? And will there be a difference in performance or anything?

These are perfectly safe to use for what you want to do. I'm an electronics engineer with a lot of experience in the audio field (built several amps myself) so I hope this helps.
Be careful with using audio RCA cables. These use lighter gauge wires (audio signals are 5-300mV) and are likely to not support the current needed for tattoo machines. The shown adapters are ok though.
You could post a photo of the failing RCA connector and how it fits into the machine. That way I might be able to help you better.

learner · 21 May 2021

MirandM said:
These are perfectly safe to use for what you want to do. I'm an electronics engineer with a lot of experience in the audio field (built several amps myself) so I hope this helps.
Be careful with using audio RCA cables. These use lighter gauge wires (audio signals are 5-300mV) and are likely to not support the current needed for tattoo machines. The shown adapters are ok though.
You could post a photo of the failing RCA connector and how it fits into the machine.

Do you mean I should not go buy and use any audio RCA cable on a tattoo machine since the current are not supported for it?

Lucky I didn’t buy it then and got RCA adaptors instead since I was planning to plug the adaptors onto my tattoo rca cable that didn’t fit on my machine. Everything should be sweet doing it this way right?

Here is a pic of my tattoo rca see how it’s not fitting:

https://imgur.com/a/i8Oj0zq

MirandM · 21 May 2021

learner said:
Do you mean I should not go buy and use any audio RCA cable on a tattoo machine since the current are not supported for it?

Lucky I didn’t buy it then and got RCA adaptors instead since I was planning to plug the adaptors onto my tattoo rca cable that didn’t fit on my machine. Everything should be sweet doing it this way right?

Here is a pic of my tattoo rca see how it’s not fitting:

https://imgur.com/a/i8Oj0zq

You can plug your tattoo RCA cable directly into the adapters, that's ok. The adapters shown are those that have heavy internal wiring (usually a rod for the center connection).
As I said audio RCA cables are used for voltages 20-200 times lower than a tattoo machine. Typically they use 24AWG cables which have a maximum current of 3.5A. In theory this is enough for a tattoo machine that usually draws about 0.5A max. but look at this:

you see, the thinner the wire, the more resistance it will have. It doesn't mean you can't use audio cables, but you should chose a cable with a lower AWG, like 16 or so. Those will have a thicker wire and thus less resistance and better throughput at variable currents.

From your photo I gather that the RCA connector has a conical outer rim (a photo of the unplugged plug itself could show that) and it looks to me like the space where it's supposed to fit is just too tight. This is probably why the adapters do fit and you should be able to solve the problem like that.

learner · 23 May 2021

MirandM said:
You can plug your tattoo RCA cable directly into the adapters, that's ok. The adapters shown are those that have heavy internal wiring (usually a rod for the center connection).
As I said audio RCA cables are used for voltages 20-200 times lower than a tattoo machine. Typically they use 24AWG cables which have a maximum current of 3.5A. In theory this is enough for a tattoo machine that usually draws about 0.5A max. but look at this:

View attachment 26084
you see, the thinner the wire, the more resistance it will have. It doesn't mean you can't use audio cables, but you should chose a cable with a lower AWG, like 16 or so. Those will have a thicker wire and thus less resistance and better throughput at variable currents.

From your photo I gather that the RCA connector has a conical outer rim (a photo of the unplugged plug itself could show that) and it looks to me like the space where it's supposed to fit is just too tight. This is probably why the adapters do fit and you should be able to solve the problem like that.

I’m abit late on replying mind me. Thank you for the very detailed reply.

Here is a picture of inside the adaptor:

https://imgur.com/a/cmetlAC

MirandM · 23 May 2021

yes, I know the adapter is ok, I already saw that from the other photos. It's the original plug I would like to see just unplugged to confirm my suspicion. If you could take a picture just like the plugged in, but now unplugged, I'm sure I'll be able to tell you why it probably doesn't fit.
Thanks

edit: please wait a little bit, I will show you with pictures what I mean, I just need a little time to prepare the post.

MirandM · 23 May 2021

MirandM said:
yes, I know the adapter is ok, I already saw that from the other photos. It's the original plug I would like to see just unplugged to confirm my suspicion. If you could take a picture just like the plugged in, but now unplugged, I'm sure I'll be able to tell you why it probably doesn't fit.
Thanks

edit: please wait a little bit, I will show you with pictures what I mean, I just need a little time to prepare the post.

OK, here we go:

your original cable is likely to have a conical plug, just like this one:

you can see the other shape is slightly conical, meaning the base is wider than the edge of the outer connector part.

The adapter you bought has a rectangle shape, like this (from your photo):

There are two different types of pen machines with regards to the RCA socket.
This is one with a free air socket:

you can clearly see the socket is outside of the body and will thus accept any type of RCA plug.

However, your pen has a sunken socket, like this one:

meaning the socket is located within the pen body, and thus has an outer rim surrounding the socket.
What is likely your case is the fact that the space between the outer rim and the outer part of the socket is too tight for the conical plug to fit in. Here's what I mean:

The base of the conical socket is wider than the space available for it to fit in, and so the plug will not be able to be inserted completely and goes wobbly.

Your solution with the adapter that has a rectangle socket is valid as the adapter's plug will indeed fit in the space available, and the other part of the adapter, the socket part, is free air so will accept your original conical plug.

Is this the case?

learner · 24 May 2021

MirandM said:
OK, here we go:

your original cable is likely to have a conical plug, just like this one:
View attachment 26356
you can see the other shape is slightly conical, meaning the base is wider than the edge of the outer connector part.

The adapter you bought has a rectangle shape, like this (from your photo):
View attachment 26357

There are two different types of pen machines with regards to the RCA socket.
This is one with a free air socket:
View attachment 26358
you can clearly see the socket is outside of the body and will thus accept any type of RCA plug.

However, your pen has a sunken socket, like this one:
View attachment 26359
meaning the socket is located within the pen body, and thus has an outer rim surrounding the socket.
What is likely your case is the fact that the space between the outer rim and the outer part of the socket is too tight for the conical plug to fit in. Here's what I mean:
View attachment 26360
The base of the conical socket is wider than the space available for it to fit in, and so the plug will not be able to be inserted completely and goes wobbly.

Your solution with the adapter that has a rectangle socket is valid as the adapter's plug will indeed fit in the space available, and the other part of the adapter, the socket part, is free air so will accept your original conical plug.

Is this the case?

Here is the picture of the RCA cable head that you asked to see:

https://imgur.com/a/VJcugyM

- I assume it should be ok to plug this RCA cable into my adaptor?

- Also if I was to buy a new RCA cable later on for whatever reason. How would I go about selecting or knowing which one will fit properly? Is there a way? Or is it just a buy and hope thing.

And thank you for your very detailed replies. I appreciate your effort and time!

MirandM · 24 May 2021

learner said:
Here is the picture of the RCA cable head that you asked to see:

https://imgur.com/a/VJcugyM

- I assume it should be ok to plug this RCA cable into my adaptor?

- Also if I was to buy a new RCA cable later on for whatever reason. How would I go about selecting or knowing which one will fit properly? Is there a way? Or is it just a buy and hope thing.

And thank you for your very detailed replies. I appreciate your effort and time!

Yes, you can plug your plug into the adapter.

Here's what you should NOT buy:

because that's the same as you have, a conical shape..

Here's what you SHOULD buy:

See the difference in shape? This one is rectangular and will fit.

Btw. these are in fact tattoo power cables, so yes they are available, you only have to be careful to buy the right one.
Oh and please, if you like my post, click on "like" in the lower right corner of each post. Thanks.

Dazza · 24 May 2021

learner said:
https://imgur.com/a/tn04dUR

These are some pictures of the RCA Adaptors I got from Jaycar. Thinking of plugging my rca cable that didn’t work on my machine into these adaptors.

I have a question - Are these adaptors safe to use on expensive machine? And will there be a difference in performance or anything?

I’ve tried those angled rca s before and they didn’t work very well

MirandM · 24 May 2021

Dazza said:
I’ve tried those angled rca s before and they didn’t work very well

Personally I use an RCA battery pack, far more comfortable and without movement-stress on the connector. But it is more expensive then buying a new cord. The answer of whether to use a straight plug or an angled one is more defined by the way you tattoo, your holding position and how you route the cable during work. Quality wise there's no difference between the two plugs.
Just today I did some PMU and noticed my 2,5mm jack cable was failing at the angled plug. Since I prefer a straight plug for my work I bought a new one with straight plugs.

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