Help with consistency

lukefernandes · 3 Aug 2021

Hi first post. Been tattooing for a couple months on and off. Using the Dragonhawk Mast Rotary Pen. Needle Bee 7rl cartrdige. Kuro Sumi Black Ink. Running at 7.5 volts. Moving pretty slow.

I've been wanting to do my birth year for the first tattoo. And I wanted to really get it down on a practice skin before I do it on my lower calf. I just can't seem to get it good enough. I have circled lines that i feel were good and bold. I just don't know what I did there differently.

I also had an issue yesterday where i dipped the tip into the ink and tried to tattoo... and literally nothing would show until I started pulling the line/seeing a drop of ink fall to the needle. I would then re-dip and it would be wayyy too much ink. I couldn't seem to find a happy medium.

Also with how small and precise this lettering needs to be, I can't afford to have splatter because then i can't seem to see where I'm going. I've tried a thin layer of vaseline which sometimes helps. Should i be stretching the tattoo skin? How do i find that happy medium where im able to do bold lines with enough ink but still be able to see where i'm going? Also for a small tat like this, would you move your elbow or just your hand/wrist? Thanks for your help!

Gyazo

Burt · 6 Aug 2021

Alot of people here with much more knowledge and experience than me, but no one replied to you yet, so you get my 2cents. If your voltage and hand speed are always the same as you said then that only really leaves depth. There is a big difference in fake skin or actual skin but sometimes you need a bit of hand pressure. The few fake skins I used needed a decent hand pressure.
Are you riding the tube? If not then you shouldn't be having ink splatter, especially with carts, try slow your machine down. Sorry but I can't help if riding the tube, I never do it, feels far too clumsy to me and seems like always will have ink over the stencil. Personally I like a good needle hang to see what I'm doing.
For something this small I wouldn't worry about elbow or wrist and just do what's comfortable. Hope that helps

NotJasper · 7 Aug 2021

Burt said:
Alot of people here with much more knowledge and experience than me, but no one replied to you yet, so you get my 2cents. If your voltage and hand speed are always the same as you said then that only really leaves depth. There is a big difference in fake skin or actual skin but sometimes you need a bit of hand pressure. The few fake skins I used needed a decent hand pressure.
Are you riding the tube? If not then you shouldn't be having ink splatter, especially with carts, try slow your machine down. Sorry but I can't help if riding the tube, I never do it, feels far too clumsy to me and seems like always will have ink over the stencil. Personally I like a good needle hang to see what I'm doing.
For something this small I wouldn't worry about elbow or wrist and just do what's comfortable. Hope that helps

Just curious, what do you mean by "riding the tube"?

Burt · 8 Aug 2021

NotJasper said:
Just curious, what do you mean by "riding the tube"?

By riding the tube I mean when you just have the right amount of needle hanging out the tip, so the tip of the tube or cart actually touches the skin. Rather than hanging more needle out and just using the right amount of needle. If that makes sense ?

Joni · 8 Aug 2021

lukefernandes said:
Hi first post. Been tattooing for a couple months on and off. Using the Dragonhawk Mast Rotary Pen. Needle Bee 7rl cartrdige. Kuro Sumi Black Ink. Running at 7.5 volts. Moving pretty slow.

I've been wanting to do my birth year for the first tattoo. And I wanted to really get it down on a practice skin before I do it on my lower calf. I just can't seem to get it good enough. I have circled lines that i feel were good and bold. I just don't know what I did there differently.

I also had an issue yesterday where i dipped the tip into the ink and tried to tattoo... and literally nothing would show until I started pulling the line/seeing a drop of ink fall to the needle. I would then re-dip and it would be wayyy too much ink. I couldn't seem to find a happy medium.

Also with how small and precise this lettering needs to be, I can't afford to have splatter because then i can't seem to see where I'm going. I've tried a thin layer of vaseline which sometimes helps. Should i be stretching the tattoo skin? How do i find that happy medium where im able to do bold lines with enough ink but still be able to see where i'm going? Also for a small tat like this, would you move your elbow or just your hand/wrist? Thanks for your help!

Gyazo

Maybe you have vaseline build up in your tip? Do you rinse often enough?

lukefernandes · 11 Aug 2021

Burt said:
Alot of people here with much more knowledge and experience than me, but no one replied to you yet, so you get my 2cents. If your voltage and hand speed are always the same as you said then that only really leaves depth. There is a big difference in fake skin or actual skin but sometimes you need a bit of hand pressure. The few fake skins I used needed a decent hand pressure.
Are you riding the tube? If not then you shouldn't be having ink splatter, especially with carts, try slow your machine down. Sorry but I can't help if riding the tube, I never do it, feels far too clumsy to me and seems like always will have ink over the stencil. Personally I like a good needle hang to see what I'm doing.
For something this small I wouldn't worry about elbow or wrist and just do what's comfortable. Hope that helps

Yeah I don't ride the tube. I tried a different cart too and was having the same issue. I think it might have something to do with the vaseline. When i dip the needle in ink.. Should i dip just the tip?

lukefernandes · 11 Aug 2021

Joni said:
Maybe you have vaseline build up in your tip? Do you rinse often enough?

This could be the issue actually. I try to run the needle into a papertowel with a little water. How do most people rinse?

Burt · 11 Aug 2021

For what you saying about some lines being bolder than others I really think it's hand pressure mate. As for dipping I usually run my machine and fill up with ink but sometimes just dip when it's off. I dip to where the tip of tube just touches the ink then if you run the machine it sucks it up.
Vaseline can clog up your needles and so can your paper towel. You will work out a technique that works for you. I do what I've seen people do when tattooing me, which is to hold paper towel almost parallel to needle and just touch the tip to take away the excess ink making sure the needles don't touch. If that makes sense?

lukefernandes said:
Yeah I don't ride the tube. I tried a different cart too and was having the same issue. I think it might have something to do with the vaseline. When i dip the needle in ink.. Should i dip just the tip?

MalligaMallan · 12 Aug 2021

On Reelskin you should use cold pressed coconut oil (you find it at any grocery store) instead of Vaseline. It doesn't clog the needles at all. Due to the low melting point (23⁰C) it's much easier to get a really thin layer.

(And is also very good for tattoo after care, as it is bactericidal).

MirandM · 12 Aug 2021

MalligaMallan said:
On Reelskin you should use cold pressed coconut oil (you find it at any grocery store) instead of Vaseline. It doesn't clog the needles at all. Due to the low melting point (23⁰C) it's much easier to get a really thin layer.

(And is also very good for tattoo after care, as it is bactericidal).

If you can't get the oil, try using a thin layer of A+D cream. It's far better than vaseline, doesn't clog up the needles.

lukefernandes · 14 Aug 2021

Burt said:
For what you saying about some lines being bolder than others I really think it's hand pressure mate. As for dipping I usually run my machine and fill up with ink but sometimes just dip when it's off. I dip to where the tip of tube just touches the ink then if you run the machine it sucks it up.
Vaseline can clog up your needles and so can your paper towel. You will work out a technique that works for you. I do what I've seen people do when tattooing me, which is to hold paper towel almost parallel to needle and just touch the tip to take away the excess ink making sure the needles don't touch. If that makes sense?

What do you mean by hand pressure? LIke how hard you hold the machine?

Burt · 15 Aug 2021

lukefernandes said:
What do you mean by hand pressure? LIke how hard you hold the machine?

I mean how much downward pressure your putting on the machine, try to keep your grip of the machine light, lines can get shakey with a death grip.
I mean actually pushing downwards slightly into your fake skin.

lukefernandes · 15 Aug 2021

Burt said:
I mean how much downward pressure your putting on the machine, try to keep your grip of the machine light, lines can get shakey with a death grip.
I mean actually pushing downwards slightly into your fake skin.

huh?? you mean like the depth of the needle? How much the needle is going in?

lukefernandes · 16 Aug 2021

The coconut oil was a huge help! For some reason there is little to no splatter. Thank you for that recommendation.

Also I started going deeper into the fake skin and my lines are much more bold. But I feel like if I went that depth it would be too much on human skin...

MalligaMallan · 16 Aug 2021

lukefernandes said:
The coconut oil was a huge help! For some reason there is little to no splatter. Thank you for that recommendation.

Also I started going deeper into the fake skin and my lines are much more bold. But I feel like if I went that depth it would be too much on human skin...

Depth on fake skin and on human skin is different, that's correct.

Your technique for tattooing on fake and tattooing on human may vary in several ways. That doesn't mean it's useless to practice on fake skin. On the contrary there are several benefits from practicing on fake skin.

Tattooing human skin vary a lot too. Different persons with different types of skin, and skin is different on different parts on one and same person. Thickness of skin vary a lot, sometimes even when tattooing same area.

So don't focus so much on the furnitures m differences between fake skin and human skin, learn to adapt to the conditions for the fake skin, and that will make you more observant when tattooing human skin.

Practicing straight lining, shading, packing colour, hand speed combined with machine speed - those are some of the important things you can practice on fake skin.

Some people here will say they can't practice on fake skin, that it's pretty much useless and that human skin is the only medium for practice. My impression is that they who claims this and who does a decent job when practicing on human skin immediately from start, are those who are very skilled in drawing and painting before starting tattooing, and possibly have a natural talent for handicraft work (which is what tattooing very much is about). It's not for everybody to go that route, which those persons unfortunately don't think of. Their advice suits themselves, not everybody. The majority of people starting directly on human skin gets horrible results.

However - practicing on fake skin usually is a pretty short process. Do it for a little while, till you get enough feel for it (and find you do a decent work), than you can start trying on human skin (yourself preferably)

I still tattoo fake skin sometimes (been tattooing about 7 years now), when I'm planning a motif on a client that I'm not sure how to tattoo.

MalligaMallan · 16 Aug 2021

"Furnitures"?

Burt · 16 Aug 2021

MalligaMallan said:
I didn't even notice that until I just read it again... Somehow it made sense to me haha

dirtnail · 16 Aug 2021

Good to see you ditched the Vaseline... I also had the experience of it clogging the needle relatively fast.
The coconut oil should help a lot already. Appart from keeping the skin moisturised and easier to clean it also helps pool the ink around the needle.

Sounds like you need to practice hand stability and depth consistency. Good fake skin is perfect for that stuff. Use it to get comfortable with your machine and you will have a huge advantage when going into real skin.

Good luck, keep practicing and you'll get there.

KyleBl4ck · 16 Aug 2021

I would not recommend doing lettering or numbers for your first tattoo as lettering is one of the harder styles to get down. If you want to get good at lettering, it's gonna take a while, use a 3RL and practice doing just the outside outlines of letters until you nail it everytime. I had to do this for 6 months of my apprenticeship.

lukefernandes · 17 Aug 2021

Ya lettering is definitely really hard to get perfect. I attached a pic from the work last night. (left side. Chose an easier font. I think it looks better too.)

Gyazo

Another area i really need help in is the stenciling.... I can never get the stencil to look bold and dark. Last night I could barely see where I was going. Had to guess for the most part.

My stencil process is all by hand, stencil transfer paper, i use speed stick deodorant. Just a thin line. I've tried waiting a day, to a week.. But its really light. I can barely see it.

KyleBl4ck · 17 Aug 2021

Get a Thermafax, theyre like 40-100$ usually. Also, Spirit stencil paper. Almost all the other ones suck.

MalligaMallan · 17 Aug 2021

On fake skin, buy talc powder (at the pharmacies or possibly in the grocery store too) and spread a little over the sheet. Wipe off the excess carefully.

Apply stencil solution and stencil just like normal procedure. You will notice a massive difference.

WITHOUT TALC:

WITH TALC:

If you wait at least a couple of hours after applying stencil before tattooing, the stencil won't come off so easily. If you wait like 24h it won't come off at all. On the other hand it won't come off when you want it to come off either

lukefernandes · 17 Aug 2021

MalligaMallan said:
On fake skin, buy talc powder (at the pharmacies or possibly in the grocery store too) and spread a little over the sheet. Wipe off the excess carefully.

Apply stencil solution and stencil just like normal procedure. You will notice a massive difference.

WITHOUT TALC:

View attachment 26897

WITH TALC:

View attachment 26896

If you wait at least a couple of hours after applying stencil before tattooing, the stencil won't come off so easily. If you wait like 24h it won't come off at all. On the other hand it won't come off when you want it to come off either

omg thank you. I'm excited try this!!!

MirandM · 17 Aug 2021

MalligaMallan said:
...
If you wait at least a couple of hours after applying stencil before tattooing, the stencil won't come off so easily. If you wait like 24h it won't come off at all. On the other hand it won't come off when you want it to come off either

No need to tattoo then.... great!

marked 4 life · 17 Aug 2021

MalligaMallan · 17 Aug 2021

PS Wash the sheet with dish soap and water (brush it) and dry it (of course

) before using talc. I'm not sure if the talc would work without cleaning the sheet first, I haven't tried

Burt · 17 Aug 2021

marked 4 life said:
Something you may or may not find useful but I do it on all my script and numbers particularly Roman numerals which will stand out if not even is add a couple of border lines to the stencil above and below the font or numbers, I know then not to go past the lines or cut it short up to the line, simple but for me very effective.

That is great advice, will definitely be using that tip thanks

Burt · 17 Aug 2021

I use the cheapest stencil paper I can get all hand stenciled too and use just Dettol to apply it works fine for me.. but gotta push kinda firm when first tracing the stencil, you will see from the back of the paper if it's gunna be solid or not

lukefernandes · 17 Aug 2021

marked 4 life said:
Something you may or may not find useful but I do it on all my script and numbers particularly Roman numerals which will stand out if not even is add a couple of border lines to the stencil above and below the font or numbers, I know then not to go past the lines or cut it short up to the line, simple but for me very effective.

Was thinking about this after my last session. I'm glad you brought this up. I think it would help for sure.

Nathan Molenaar · 17 Aug 2021

lukefernandes said:
Hi first post. Been tattooing for a couple months on and off. Using the Dragonhawk Mast Rotary Pen. Needle Bee 7rl cartrdige. Kuro Sumi Black Ink. Running at 7.5 volts. Moving pretty slow.

I've been wanting to do my birth year for the first tattoo. And I wanted to really get it down on a practice skin before I do it on my lower calf. I just can't seem to get it good enough. I have circled lines that i feel were good and bold. I just don't know what I did there differently.

I also had an issue yesterday where i dipped the tip into the ink and tried to tattoo... and literally nothing would show until I started pulling the line/seeing a drop of ink fall to the needle. I would then re-dip and it would be wayyy too much ink. I couldn't seem to find a happy medium.

Also with how small and precise this lettering needs to be, I can't afford to have splatter because then i can't seem to see where I'm going. I've tried a thin layer of vaseline which sometimes helps. Should i be stretching the tattoo skin? How do i find that happy medium where im able to do bold lines with enough ink but still be able to see where i'm going? Also for a small tat like this, would you move your elbow or just your hand/wrist? Thanks for your help!

Gyazo

Dragon hawks are not great for thick lines because they have a fixed 3.5mm stroke if you want to push anything over 7 you cant have the needle out far enough to float the needle to give you the accuracy you need for script. It's also a direct drive which is very unforgiving and can make blowouts more frequent.

If tattooing is what you want to do and you're certain then you need to upgrade your gear. Highly recommend an inkjecta flite nano lite. I've used one my whole career and its never let me down.

lukefernandes · 23 Aug 2021

Hi guys. Just did another stencil. The Talc powder definitely helped it get more darker. But another common issue I have is the stencil will smudge on the skin for whatever reason. As you can see from the pic some of the stencils look smudged. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I don't move the transfer paper I just put pressure down on the skin. I make sure to wash the skin. I also tried Dettol here and there instead of my stick deodorant. I only use a thin layer of deodorant/dettol.....Any tips? Is it because I trace the stencil with a pencil instead of a pen? My transfer papers are Atsui brand. I will look into getting Spirit transfer paper.

Gyazo

gyazo.com

PS. how do i attach an image without having to link a URL. I don't see another option for me.

Burt · 23 Aug 2021

To attach pictures without a link I think you need to go premium mate. Well worth it. I've not used fake skin much but I feel like stencils go better on skin because the paper kinda sticks where as on fake skin it can slip a bit... But the cleaner you can trace the stencil the cleaner the stencil will be for sure

MalligaMallan · 24 Aug 2021

I've applied probably hundreds of stencils on different kinds of fake skin - cheap and expensive - fruits and pig, and I've never gotten that smeared result. I think it must be the stencil paper you're using. Get some Spirit. Be sure you order the right kind, there are stencils for hand tracing and stencils for copier machines. And order it from a well known supplier so you don't get fake Spirit.

DKJ · 24 Aug 2021

marked 4 life said:
Something you may or may not find useful but I do it on all my script and numbers particularly Roman numerals which will stand out if not even is add a couple of border lines to the stencil above and below the font or numbers, I know then not to go past the lines or cut it short up to the line, simple but for me very effective.

and to add to this, i would advise you to print your fonts outlined instead of black-filled.

that way you'll have more control because you'll be lining over a line (with internal and external borders), meaning you won't be going too much inside (no border inside):

Peace,

DKJ

marked 4 life · 24 Aug 2021

lukefernandes · 24 Aug 2021

DKJ said:
and to add to this, i would advise you to print your fonts outlined instead of black-filled.

that way you'll have more control because you'll be lining over a line (with internal and external borders), meaning you won't be going too much inside (no border inside):
View attachment 26989

Peace,

DKJ

This is a very good tip thank you!

For the size of the stencil that I'm doing would you still recommend doing the outlines? Because I'm using a 7rl and the thickness of that is the size of the line. I feel like i would have to use a 1rl -3rl to do the outlines i think. Let me know! Thank you

marked 4 life · 25 Aug 2021

lukefernandes · 25 Aug 2021

marked 4 life said:
Have you got a picture of the design you are proposing on doing?
you could use a single thicker line if it isn’t sculpted or doesn’t taper off, I like to use hollow liners for thicker lines, I have to tattoo some script on a guys head next Tuesday and I intend to use a 7 or 9 hollow liner for that.

It's really small. It's just my birth year. Theres some photos above ^

marked 4 life · 25 Aug 2021

lukefernandes said:
It's really small. It's just my birth year. Theres some photos above ^

If it’s just 1991 I would single line it, if it is smallish I would personally use a 1005 or 1007rl

Help with consistency

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