Line Boldness

I have problems with "ghost lines" as I've seen others put it. I have a Pirate Face Tattoo kit, and Yuelong tattoo needles. It's definitely not the needle grouping causing the issue. Some people say to crank the power supply for this issue but running it past a 5 sounds and feels terrifying, it doesn't bog hardly at all when pressure is applied to the needle bar.
I've used 3RL-7RLs and 5RS for lining. The 5RS definitely has the best lining look and consistency, I truly don't like working with actual tight grouped needles. It comes out scratchy as hell in comparison.
I have problems with the ink just being completely wiped away with liners. Nothing sticking at all.

5RS for the bold lines, 7RL for the smaller:
Which as you can see, some parts of this tat don't have that ghost line issue.


This was a 7RL for lining and a 5RS for color
The color packing is patchy, but that's on me. I came back to this and filled it in more, as well as patched up some of the lines. This is probably the best I've been able to do with a liner.
http://instagr.am/p/Bum6THenKN3/
Is it a depth issue? It's not a needle issue. The needles aren't out of wack, they're all straight and fine. It's not a speed issue, this machine would shoot off into space at the power supply's max voltage.
Do I just need a better power supply? More consistent depth? Help!
You can flip through my instagram and see the other few tattoos I've done, try to assess the issue.

turn up the volts. Crap Pirate face machines are not going to push squat at 5v. Your lines have depth issues both shallow and too deep...and your 5rs lines are not even penetrating completely or you'd not have those broken up lines showing each needle in the grouping. anywhere you have an actual solid line you have a blowout...so there is a depth issue. I don't think it's too deep based on your picture but rather your angle of the machine as you get to the end of a line.

When your 5rs is 4x wider than a 7rl something is terribly wrong.

TexasPT said:

turn up the volts. Crap Pirate face machines are not going to push squat at 5v. Your lines have depth issues both shallow and too deep...and your 5rs lines are not even penetrating completely or you'd not have those broken up lines showing each needle in the grouping. anywhere you have an actual solid line you have a blowout...so there is a depth issue. I don't think it's too deep based on your picture but rather your angle of the machine as you get to the end of a line.

When your 5rs is 4x wider than a 7rl something is terribly wrong.

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Lol what is the thing that's terribly wrong though?

I should post a video of this thing at anything above 7 because it sounds literally horrible. It sounds like it's going to break.

I can't help you, just wanted to say that you have the artistic capability at least, and that's really nice to see (looked through your ig)

Felharr said:

I should post a video of this thing at anything above 7 because it sounds literally horrible. It sounds like it's going to break.

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sounds like you need to tune your machine, i don't think any of my machines will even run loaded at 5v let alone put in a solid line. If your machine sounds gnarly and graunchy when you turn it up you probably need to swap out your springs, adjust your contact point angle etc.

You have a few issues which are easy to identify, take advantage of the help and information available to you in the premium members section, doesnt cost much to join and helps to keep this site going ?

Never heard of yuelong needles ,so googled it ,cheap Chinese rubbish ,that might be part of the problem

Looking at your machines and hearing you use Yuelong stuff... did you get one of those cheap China kits?
Do hope your ink isn't of the China variety also

From your insta...
"yes I'm aware these r not the best machines!"
By the looks of it "Not the best" is quite the understatement

"but if I can make something good with shitty machines"
Skilled people can probably tune and upgrade those machines to work properly, but if you don't have those skills...
Good luck with that mate

"then I'll spend the big bux on some good stuff."
Guess it's fine to wait with spending big bux when you're doing pig and fruit... since that's more about getting the feel of tattooing anyway.
No need to start on top range $1000 machines but at least try to get a decent quality setup before you move to skin please.
Also when using crap tools you could very well be teaching yourself wrong habits... and actually impeding your progress.


You do have quite the artistic skills
So, if you are serious about getting into tattooing, I really think you would benefit from using proper tools to translate your talents to tattooing...

fylfot said:

sounds like you need to tune your machine, i don't think any of my machines will even run loaded at 5v let alone put in a solid line. If your machine sounds gnarly and graunchy when you turn it up you probably need to swap out your springs, adjust your contact point angle etc.

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I've set them to the dime and quarter gaps, but I can try pulling back on the contact screw a little more and see if that helps.

dirtnail said:

Looking at your machines and hearing you use Yuelong stuff... did you get one of those cheap China kits?
Do hope your ink isn't of the China variety also

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Stated in the top of the post, it's pirate face tattoo's kit. I'm using Intenze and nocturnal ink. Not skimping on ink.

dirtnail said:

"but if I can make something good with shitty machines"
Skilled people can probably tune and upgrade those machines to work properly, but if you don't have those skills...
Good luck with that mate

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We just gonna ignore that some of the best prison tattooers did sick work with a guitar strings and a toothbrush motor cause
Or japanese style tattooing that just involves a fancy stick and some needles? It's 100% more about the technique than the machine or tool for depositing the ink.
Having a $400 machine means jack if I can't even get a $40 one to work half decently. I'm not gonna spend copious amounts of money on something when I'm still getting the basics down.

MalligaMallan said:

I can't help you, just wanted to say that you have the artistic capability at least, and that's really nice to see (looked through your ig)

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I've been doing art for my entire life, tattooing is just learning how to apply that artistic skill to skin properly. I see lots of people that just doodled in highschool trying to tattoo when they have no concept of color, composition, anatomy, just any of that. I've been a practicing artist. I don't need to learn how to draw, just need help learning the new medium which is needles, skin, and ink.

Felharr said:

We just gonna ignore that some of the best prison tattooers did sick work with a guitar strings and a toothbrush motor cause
Or japanese style tattooing that just involves a fancy stick and some needles? It's 100% more about the technique than the machine or tool for depositing the ink.
Having a $400 machine means jack if I can't even get a $40 one to work half decently. I'm not gonna spend copious amounts of money on something when I'm still getting the basics down.

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Shit, wish I knew that before I bought all my machines! We might wonder why no remotely serious tattooer actually uses prison quality guitar strings or $40 machines though...

Just trying to help mate. I bet loads of people here tried those China built machines (including me). And I also want to bet they will all tell you to ditch them.
Guess you could get a half way decent tattoo in with a crap machine if you know what you're doing. But you clearly don't so at this point those machines are actually holding back your progress...

think that will help ?

Your right about guitar string prison tattoos and stick and bone tattoos. But those are tools that work. Eventually you'll discover that for yourself.

As said it's great you have the artistic capability. A nice attitude is great to have too. I wish you luck on your journey

to me and my mate clarified what i think. the flower looks like its not a lining needle its been lined with a round shader. with either too faster hand or not enough ink..those needles used are crap and need disposing of

I don't get what the issue with needles is. What's the different between a cheap and expensive needle? They're all tightly grouped I don't see any stragglers or anything out of wack on them. I'm almost out of them anyway, but does anyone know good quality needles that are with disposable tips, tubes, and grips?

Felharr said:

I don't get what the issue with needles is. What's the different between a cheap and expensive needle? They're all tightly grouped I don't see any stragglers or anything out of wack on them. I'm almost out of them anyway, but does anyone know good quality needles that are with disposable tips, tubes, and grips?

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Quality of sharps and consistency of assembly, get 10 cheap needles side by side, check them all with an eye loupe and you will see the differences, solder run, tightness of groupings and some of the very cheap chinese ones arent even sterile as they are put together in someones yard in unsanitary conditions, stick to brands from reputable suppliers, even then some of the cheaper ones are inconsistent.

If you are shopping on Amazon Big Wasp has good reviews

Felharr said:

I've set them to the dime and quarter gaps, but I can try pulling back on the contact screw a little more and see if that helps.


Stated in the top of the post, it's pirate face tattoo's kit. I'm using Intenze and nocturnal ink. Not skimping on ink.




We just gonna ignore that some of the best prison tattooers did sick work with a guitar strings and a toothbrush motor cause
Or japanese style tattooing that just involves a fancy stick and some needles? It's 100% more about the technique than the machine or tool for depositing the ink.
Having a $400 machine means jack if I can't even get a $40 one to work half decently. I'm not gonna spend copious amounts of money on something when I'm still getting the basics down.

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I think we've all done this, and it's normal. My first kit was pirate face too. What I found is that with the more expensive machines they would run more consistent, and stay tuned. That consistent power delivery made it easier to be consistent with my work.

if it sounds sick over 7v, I'd tighten every bolt on the machine. That's where I'd start anyway.

Tattoo University has a video on how to tune a tattoo kit machine...

People have gave you some excellent advise on this thread. You should ask yourself if you are commitment to tattooing as a medium. I'm not saying that to be an ass, it is a legitimate question you should ask yourself. If the answer is yes then why wouldn't you be willing to invest in your tools?

First you're right, a person can do decent work with an E string, pen barrel, clipper motor and burnt chess pieces for ink. I was one of them, but I wouldnt do it today because I dont have to. Besides the fact that you are comparing the equivalent of a direct drive rotary to a coil.

You can tune a kit machine up and get decent work out of it but it has been my experience that its not constant. If you are on the West Coast you might want to check out Chris Gove. You can pick up a liner from him for $215 that hits like a truck. If you are on the East Coast check out Alchemy Alloys. He also builds hard hitters that have a decent price tag.

There is no such thing as an expensive needle. Even Black Claw needles are less than $1 a piece. What kind of liner are you using? You are not going to get the same bold line from a 7 liner that has an extra long taper than you will from a 7 liner that has a medium taper. But if you feel that what you are using is too tight, take a lighter and heat the solder on the needle for a couple of seconds and immediately dip it in distilled water. That will loosen the grouping just a bit.

I used to have the mentality that if I could tattoo with crap then I would be able to tattoo with good equipment. That didnt necessarily hold true for me. I had gotten used to a slow hand speed from using machines that werent hitting hard enough, a power supply that wasnt providing consistent voltage, and needles and tubes that werent providing ample ink flow. As I upgraded all of that, I had to force myself to totally change the way I tattooed.

So yea you can learn how to tattoo with crap, but it's alot easier to invest a little bit of money at the beginning and save yourself some headaches.

I started with an old fashioned copper top relay, Bic pen as a barrel, and wire brushes as needles. Once I committed to becoming a legitimate tattooist the first thing I did was purchase quality machines, in my opinion. I have around $2500 in my machines alone and I’m just starting out tattooing with “free world” machines. Like Jcroe said “ going from a slow hitting, slow hand speed machine, to something that hits hard and fast is a totally different ball game. I have had to change the way I do a lot of things since the quality of my machines are way better. I picked up my first liner for $200 by Vlad Blad and my first shader was only like $180 by him also. Not sure what others think of him as a builder but from what I can tell they are solid as a rock. I haven’t had to tune them yet. I guess what I’m getting at is if you’re going to be tattooing as a hobby at your friends house for a couple extra bucks then stick with your kit. If you’re going to try and work at a legitimate shop as a tattooist at the least, then you might want to seriously think about investing into yourself with something that’s not going to take you 30 min of fiddling with before you can even get it loaded.

Also if you’re planning on doing any tattooing then I’d definitely join the premium on here. Loads more info and help once you make that choice.

Best of luck to you.

Some of my favorite coil machines I’ve used were cheap ass Chinese machines. However I just used them for the frame. I made my own coils, wrapped with premium wire. And got heavy duty tap screws and contact plates, etc. the only coil type machine I have anymore is one of the new DKs. I have a wand packer and a flux. Between the two they have been the most consistent hitting machines I have tried. Flux probably being my favorite all around(plus being portable for up to 8 hours is a plus, even tho I have 500$ Critical batteries for the wand if I need I usually use with cord) , def with soft shading. Packer for exactly that, packing. And before I got the DK the packer was my go to liner. Quality of needles makes a huge difference. Yeah inconsistent needle groupings will not only throw off what it’s doing to the skin, but even how the ink flows from tube if using tube to size, power supply will also make a difference in consistency. I can take a Chinese 20$ knock off bishop v6 and do just as good of a small size tattoo as I can with any of my machines when running on a good PS. My machines have more than paid for themselves, and resale on the other higher end ones I’ve tried kept me even all along, with cheap machines, unless buying for practice or as a dire need backup, you’re just throwing money away. Before I switched to mainly cartridge (which I love being able to switch between carts on the fly) I only bought tay soul needles and tubes. Some other tubes I’ve tried started out cheaper and decent, but finding inconsistencies with those made me stick with tatsoul. Now that I’m on carts I use only bishop. Some tay soul for their traditional groupings. And Tatsoul for their disposable tubes and throw rods when using the DK for a lot of line work. Not only are both those companies amazing and pricing not far off some of the cheaper ones, their quality control is the best. They inspect everything before packaging. And if you run into a problem, both have gone over and beyond on making it right. Both tatsoul and bishop have sent me while boxes of carts when I’ve shown them a broken membrane(has only happened once for each brand, but I can fill up a hand each of other brands I tried and used way less). Bishop I sent a picture of the boxes that came smushed. And a single cart package that was exposed to air because of it. Really not their fault it was FedEx. But they sent my whole order out again to make it right. I don’t plan on even trying another brand. Everytime I run out of carts before an order comes in I’d rather just reschedule, or make do with other sizes I do have on hand. Sure you can and come be seen the artist I apprenticed under, as well as many other YouTube videos of people doing amazing tattoos with crap machines. But 1- I bet they didn’t skimp on the needles, 2-I bet they wouldn’t do 3 appointments a day with them, 3-I bet they went right back to their favorite quality made machine right after.