Rotary machine vs rotary pen

vaggeliskaz · 22 Nov 2022

Hello,

I am looking to get me first tattoo machine/pen (rotary not coil)and i would like some help. (Untill now i have only tried stick and poke). What do you think is better, a rotary machine or a pen? I will not concentrate so much on fades and colours so i thought a pen will be more suitable in terms of lines, maintenance and also easier to use. I have also heard that tattoos from tattoo pens are not permanent cause the needle doesn't penetrate as deep as a machine would and i dont know if this is true. Can anyone help me choose or just give me some pros and cons for each of them ?

Thanks in advance.

Big Pete · 22 Nov 2022

Depends on how much you're prepared to spend.....I use Coils, Rotary and pens.....Coils mainly for lining, rotaries and pens for colour packing and shading, rotaries and pens are really good for stipple shading.....but if I had to only be able to buy one machine, it would be the Inkjecta Flite Nano with changeable push bars ....they can pretty much do anything...
As for tattoos fading when using a pen machine, I would think that would be more of an application issue more than type of machine issue. Needle depth is controlled by the operator, not the machine and needle can be inserted into the skin as deep as it needs to go.

DKJ · 23 Nov 2022

vaggeliskaz said:
Hello,

I am looking to get me first tattoo machine/pen (rotary not coil)and i would like some help. (Untill now i have only tried stick and poke). What do you think is better, a rotary machine or a pen? I will not concentrate so much on fades and colours so i thought a pen will be more suitable in terms of lines, maintenance and also easier to use. I have also heard that tattoos from tattoo pens are not permanent cause the needle doesn't penetrate as deep as a machine would and i dont know if this is true. Can anyone help me choose or just give me some pros and cons for each of them ?

Thanks in advance.

Quick reply from my tiny experience:
Coils : more noise and different penetration in the skin (often told as the best for lining)
Pens : less noise, different feeling for the hand flow as you usually have no wires (battteries) and less weight
Rotaries : less noise

That's all i can say and again, technique is the key to a good looking and long lasting tattoo, with experience you'll catch all that's needed.

Peace,

DKJ

vaggeliskaz · 24 Nov 2022

Big Pete said:
Depends on how much you're prepared to spend.....I use Coils, Rotary and pens.....Coils mainly for lining, rotaries and pens for colour packing and shading, rotaries and pens are really good for stipple shading.....but if I had to only be able to buy one machine, it would be the Inkjecta Flite Nano with changeable push bars ....they can pretty much do anything...
As for tattoos fading when using a pen machine, I would think that would be more of an application issue more than type of machine issue. Needle depth is controlled by the operator, not the machine and needle can be inserted into the skin as deep as it needs to go.

Thanks a lot,i would also like to ask 2 more questions. I am looking to buy something like a tattoo kit and i have read good reviewes about 2 brands, dragonhwak and solong. Do you know anything about them?
When it comes to needles, all pens have this small needles or some of them have the classic needles for coil and rotary machines? And if they do, what is the diference between them in order to make a desicion?

vaggeliskaz · 24 Nov 2022

Big Pete · 24 Nov 2022

Dragonhawk and Solong are ok products if you are only just starting out, they are on the cheaper side and in my opinion probably only suitable for learning to tattoo on practice skin or other practice mediums....personally I think Tattoo Kits are a waste of money, filled with stuff to make it look like you are getting a lot for your money, some kits come with a number of machines (all are cheap and nasty and won't last long) a few needles, some gloves, a couple of sheets of stencil paper and some ink that should never be used on human skin.
As for needles, tattoo pens and some rotaries use Cartridge needle (the small ones) while Coil machines and some rotaries use needles on a needle bar (long ones) ....but you can buy cartridge grips that fit on Coil and Rotary machines so you can use Cartridge needles with these machines.
The configuration of both cartridge and traditional needles are the same and shouldn't make a difference with the result.

DKJ · 25 Nov 2022

Hey Vaggelis,
It seems you're just starting, so if i may advise you around that, i'd say try it before you put money into it: you never know if tattooing will really please you!

I bought a very cheap pack (50€) just to try on a fake skin.
After playing around with it, i decided to invest in more professional gear.
I'd say the minimum investment if you're going to actually tattoo people meaning you're into the rules of hygiene, starts at 500€ minimum.
Machine, needles, grips, power supply, gloves, protections (hygienic barriers for your client and you), towels, vaseline, ink, cups, stencil paper, stencil liquid... The minimal list is quite long but absolutly necessary.

And all this stuff will lose 50% of its value on resale, so i'd really recommend to try before you invest.

Peace,

DKJ

vaggeliskaz · 30 Nov 2022

Big Pete said:
Dragonhawk and Solong are ok products if you are only just starting out, they are on the cheaper side and in my opinion probably only suitable for learning to tattoo on practice skin or other practice mediums....personally I think Tattoo Kits are a waste of money, filled with stuff to make it look like you are getting a lot for your money, some kits come with a number of machines (all are cheap and nasty and won't last long) a few needles, some gloves, a couple of sheets of stencil paper and some ink that should never be used on human skin.
As for needles, tattoo pens and some rotaries use Cartridge needle (the small ones) while Coil machines and some rotaries use needles on a needle bar (long ones) ....but you can buy cartridge grips that fit on Coil and Rotary machines so you can use Cartridge needles with these machines.
The configuration of both cartridge and traditional needles are the same and shouldn't make a difference with the result.

After reading some reviews and searching i am now between dragonhawk m5 or dragonhawk mg3. I cannot understand if one of them is better or if its just the same product. Do you happen to know if one of them is better or are they the same and i shouldn't worry? Which one of them do you (or anyone else) suggest?

vaggeliskaz · 2 Dec 2022

There is also the dragonhawk mast tour which seems good

whippet · 2 Dec 2022

Why not look at the Flip if you're considering Mast? It’s not a bad pen machine for the price and it has the versatility of variable stroke length. You may find that the 3.5 fixed stroke on some cheaper machines lacks real punch and is pretty limiting. As a learner you will get a lot from variable stroke options.

vaggeliskaz · 2 Dec 2022

whippet said:
Why not look at the Flip if you're considering Mast? It’s not a bad pen machine for the price and it has the versatility of variable stroke length. You may find that the 3.5 fixed stroke on some cheaper machines lacks real punch and is pretty limiting. As a learner you will get a lot from variable stroke options.

If i am not mistaken m5 and mg3 also have adjustable stroke length. Don't they?

whippet · 2 Dec 2022

vaggeliskaz said:
If i am not mistaken m5 and mg3 also have adjustable stroke length. Don't they?

The ones I looked at were fixed 3.5mm stroke, I could be wrong.

Make sure you don’t confuse stroke length with adjustment of the cartridge (needle hang).

2nd image is from the M5 spec page.

vaggeliskaz · 3 Dec 2022

whippet said:
The ones I looked at were fixed 3.5mm stroke, I could be wrong.

Make sure you don’t confuse stroke length with adjustment of the cartridge (needle hang).

2nd image is from the M5 spec page.

I think that you are right for the m5. For the mg3 thought, in the official site it says 0-4,5mm adjustable needle depth. Isn't that the one you refer to? If not, i guess i am a little confused about stroke length and needle hang as you said. (It would be nice if you explained the differences)
Here is the link:

Tattoo Kit | Dragonhawk MG3 Tattoo Machine Rotary Pen Starter Bundle

DKJ · 3 Dec 2022

Hi,
Needle hang is how much needle comes out off your tube:

If you're not familiar at all with tattoo machine, the concept is simple, the needle is attached to a motor which make it move <- and ->.
The needle is kept in place by the tube. The grip is around the tube and this is where you hold your pen/machine.

The end of the tube is what's called the tip.
To use various techniques means you can have more or less needle coming out of the tube (from 1.5 mm to 4 mm would be my thing), this is needle hang. Riding the tube means you apply directly the tip of the tube on the skin (little needle hang), while with a lot of needle hang, the tip is not touching the skin.

Read that clear article about stroke lenght:

Understanding Stroke Length for Coil & Rotary Tattoo Machines

Understanding stroke length is key to tattooing in your favorite style. Learn more about needle depth, stroke, and how to adjust.

www.painfulpleasures.com

Peace, some peeps may clarify or correct me.

DKJ

vaggeliskaz · 3 Dec 2022

DKJ said:
Hi,
Needle hang is how much needle comes out off your tube:
View attachment 27867

If you're not familiar at all with tattoo machine, the concept is simple, the needle is attached to a motor which make it move <- and ->.
The needle is kept in place by the tube. The grip is around the tube and this is where you hold your pen/machine.

The end of the tube is what's called the tip.
To use various techniques means you can have more or less needle coming out of the tube (from 1.5 mm to 4 mm would be my thing), this is needle hang. Riding the tube means you apply directly the tip of the tube on the skin (little needle hang), while with a lot of needle hang, the tip is not touching the skin.

Read that clear article about stroke lenght:

Understanding Stroke Length for Coil & Rotary Tattoo Machines

Understanding stroke length is key to tattooing in your favorite style. Learn more about needle depth, stroke, and how to adjust.

www.painfulpleasures.com

Peace, some peeps may clarify or correct me.

DKJ

Thanks a lot, that was very helpful. So in that case the mg3 and the m5 that i am talking about has a fixed stroke length at 3.5mm and an adjustable needle length from 0 to 4.5mm?

whippet · 3 Dec 2022

Yes that’s correct, which is why I suggested the Flip or similar with variable stroke length, which will vary the force of the impact (not speed). For lining and colour packing you’ll probably want a higher stroke, needle config dependent, and for soft shading a shorter stroke tends to work better.

The 3.5mm is a sort of catch all middle ground that will struggle to push needles over 9 for lining…I know as I’ve bought some of these budget rotaries. That’s not to say that Some 3.5mm stroke machines can do a lot, I have a Stigma Hyper 3 that served me well for a few years with a 3.5 stroke, but that cost a whole heap more than any Mast machine and the difference in engineering was clear.

whippet · 7 Dec 2022

vaggeliskaz said:
Thanks a lot, that was very helpful. So in that case the mg3 and the m5 that i am talking about has a fixed stroke length at 3.5mm and an adjustable needle length from 0 to 4.5mm?

Just saw this dragonhawk 15% offer if you’re still in the market for a machine:

https://dragonhawkofficial.com/?syclid=ce8fkgb7k04ebcgb91sg&utm_campaign=emailmarketing_144811950322&utm_medium=email&utm_source=shopify_email

vaggeliskaz · 7 Dec 2022

Thank you all for your help. I learnt a lot .
I have ordered my first tattoo pen and i am looking forward to use it.

DKJ · 3 Jan 2023

vaggeliskaz said:
Thank you all for your help. I learnt a lot .
I have ordered my first tattoo pen and i am looking forward to use it.

Don't forget to inform yourself about hygiene before you tattoo anyone, including yourself!!!

An infection is really easy to get, not always easy to get rid of, and certainly the baddest publicity you can get.

ALSO, buy your ink from a reliable shop or manufacturer, a lot of fake inks are ok for fake skin but can hurt badly humans!

Peace,

DKJ

Rotary machine vs rotary pen

vaggeliskaz

Big Pete

DKJ

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vaggeliskaz

Big Pete

DKJ

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vaggeliskaz

whippet

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Attachments

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DKJ

Understanding Stroke Length for Coil & Rotary Tattoo Machines

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Understanding Stroke Length for Coil & Rotary Tattoo Machines

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Free Linework Secrets Guide