Mary poppins
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This is awesome work. Well done mate. Im gonna pick your brains.lol. what paper do you use? and what technique do you use to smooth out lines without ruining skin tones? and what pencils do you use? sorry, loads of questions. i'm still trying to figure it out.
apparently I have a keen eye for likeness and draw on anything but i am trying to get more professional and up my skills. I try to do life like but i smudge everything and it starts to look faded. my aim is hyper realistic but its a long road.
apparently I have a keen eye for likeness and draw on anything but i am trying to get more professional and up my skills. I try to do life like but i smudge everything and it starts to look faded. my aim is hyper realistic but its a long road.
- Starter
- #4
Hi ronin mate how ya doing..that's drawn on not very good paper and I need to try different gauges myself. I want to try toned paper, saves haven't to put down an initial tone down, suppose you'll have to use a white pen or pencil for highlights. As far as pencils I need to get some decent ones myself but normally been using like a 2h, HB, 2b, what evers lying about.. .. I use a blending stump or a cotton bud works alright.. I didn't do art at school , in fact I didn't really go to school haha so I'm just learning myself ..a good tip is to shade across the form if you know what that means. I've got a bad habit if shading with or along the form...and use a scrap piece of paper to rest on so you don't smudge it with your hand...there's a tool you can to pick out tones..its like a piece of card with half circles cut out with tones on and helps you pick out the tone on the piece your copying.. Sometimes the same tones can look like black and white depending on where they are (its an optical illusion) but that's about it.. I let you know if I find anything else out
That grey scale value finder is a handy tool
haha..we seem to be on the same page.lol. I dipped in and out of art for 20yrs or so I guess but I was given a fully loaded pencil set a few years ago by an artist friend who said i was gifted and should really apply myself. I was like you just drawing on everything but not like your skill at all. but even having that set i use the same few pencils. 4h 2h 3b 4b but i feel like im missing something by not useing the others.
I use an a3 170gsm but cant get crisp lines. It starts nice and crisp but it smooths out even when not touched. i think because its recycled paper its absorbing the pencil. pure guess though. so ive just ordered some bristol 250 gsm. the pros swear by it so ill let you know.
We use very very similar techniques as in blending. ive read all the best pencil art books and have a couple that still need reading so im always trying to learn. everyday is a schoolday.lol.
look at these....as i was doing them they were super crisp and the blur our and i dont know why. i avoid contact like you do with scrap paper but spent a long time making detail especially around the eyes and on wrinkles etc but looks like i never bothered. i know a lot of detail is lost by the camera because they look way better in real life, you will know that. but how do i get to hyper realism?
Im really not happy with these and wasnt going to put them up but hoping maybe I can get a few new pointers to take me to the next level. Its frustrating.
I use an a3 170gsm but cant get crisp lines. It starts nice and crisp but it smooths out even when not touched. i think because its recycled paper its absorbing the pencil. pure guess though. so ive just ordered some bristol 250 gsm. the pros swear by it so ill let you know.
We use very very similar techniques as in blending. ive read all the best pencil art books and have a couple that still need reading so im always trying to learn. everyday is a schoolday.lol.
look at these....as i was doing them they were super crisp and the blur our and i dont know why. i avoid contact like you do with scrap paper but spent a long time making detail especially around the eyes and on wrinkles etc but looks like i never bothered. i know a lot of detail is lost by the camera because they look way better in real life, you will know that. but how do i get to hyper realism?
Im really not happy with these and wasnt going to put them up but hoping maybe I can get a few new pointers to take me to the next level. Its frustrating.
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You know what's even greater than the beauty of this drawing?
It's that (i believe) your style of realism can apply to tattoos directly. It mimics realism, but the grain is not that thin. Meaning it's between charcoal and pencil, which is where (to me) the grain of tattoism is.
Steve, another great pencil realism artist here, is working on an higher resolution, and I believe he will be more in difficulty than you when it's time to go on the skin canvas.
Not being able to reach the level of detail your accustomed to is a thing which really got me mad at first.
You really capture the essential mood and not going too much into details, i noticed that on your jack already (Sir Jack Nicholson of course, not your personnal jack).
> It seems Ronan is on the same page, that's nice, guys!
Peace,
DKJ
Thankyou DKJ.
All artists including tattoo artists are always their own worst critics. Its how we grow as artists. There is always room to grow. I want to specialise in black an grey tattooing and think i and mucknasty have lots of transferable skills...but still lots and lots of learning left to do.
All artists including tattoo artists are always their own worst critics. Its how we grow as artists. There is always room to grow. I want to specialise in black an grey tattooing and think i and mucknasty have lots of transferable skills...but still lots and lots of learning left to do.
If i may Ronan, i think you're still too expressive in your drawings.
I mean that you're talking about shades and smooth blends and there are a lot of strong lines in those 2 drawings.
From most of the realism artists i follow, there's a common path which is they seem to start from a point and expand from it.
To express myself better, all the talented ones are not drawing the full structure with, say, a 4H.
They seems to point out a place like a nose or an eye, and they expand from that point.
What they often say is that they don't follow the whole shapes and forms, but rather draw little parts by little parts. Like a patchwork, and by that technique their anatomy is getting sharper by a fine reproduction of those little parts.
I've seen that many times and it seems to work for a lot of talented people, maybe you could try this if you haven't already.
I won't lie, i always found it very strange but it's working!
The other thing i've heard many times is that they concentrate their efforts around textures. They're often very experimental with hairs, skin relief, eyes, and try to capture the essence of each different texture.
I hope it'll open you to new ways to touch realism.
I'm sure Mike will have some personnal patterns to explain us.
And yeah for Bristol, it definitly works great with pencils!
Peace,
DKJ
I appreciate your comments so thankyou for saying all that. I dont quite understand so I will write out again better.
I never draw a whole picture at once with 1 pencil. Why do you think that? I never said that but id like to know why you said it. is it something in my drawing?....you will see the attached picture of Dali i started recently. I do a rough sketch of the face to put proportions in place and then kinda pick a place to start..this time i started with the hair and have just started on the ear.... which is what I always do... please show me what I did wrong.
why do you think i draw the whole structure with one pencil? . I said I mainly use 4 pencils... 4h 2h 3b 4b.......mike uses 3 pencils and I use 4 pencils. Why do you think I use 1 pencil? Im curios. Is it my drawing? see the drawing below. all six shades done with a 4h so a whole structure is possible with a 4h. I just dont do it. why do you think I do?
I have an idea......Please put up a pencil portrait you have done recently and explain how you did it and maybe close ups of mine and yours to show how its different to what I am doing wrong... so I can learn better from you. Then you can show me why I am too expressive because i dont know what that means.
And then show me why and where I have strong lines in my shading and why mine are so bad so i can understand. My shading isnt perfect but I dont see strong lines in it. but as i keep saying I am on here to learn and you keep telling me what i am doing wrong but i dont know what you mean. maybe show me a picture instead. You sound very knowledgeable but unfortunately I dont know enough about art to know what you mean. I hope a picture you have done will help me because I want to learn from the best.
I look forward to your help. If you have any pointers on black grey portrait tattoos i would really love to see those and how pencil portraits have transferable skills. I Hear the top guys say that Drawing constantly helps with tattooing. id appreciate any help you can give me. I know warhorse would be interested too.
I even signed your name in the Dali picture to say hello.lol.
Thanks DKJ.
Ronan
Ronan, man... This stuff has to stop.
I'm openning the forums at 6 in the morning and first thought of my day is "Shit, Ronan is feeling bad because of me again."
And do know that i feel bad for that too.
I have a broken english, we both agree on that.
But seeing you jumping on my words, like i'm this bad father saying to his son that he will never succeed, is not what i wanted to offer you.
So first things first: Your drawings are amazing to me. I think you're working hard and it shows. You clearly have somehting and it's good. You're thinking of what can be done better and it reads well that you're seeking to get better. I don't believe i can do such works in realism.
Why putting this in bold and only positive thoughts? Because i only want your good and will never think to say something to put you down.
I don't know why you feel so furious about my words, even out of translation, but Ronan, my goal is not to make you feel bad.
You asked for criticism, i said "if i may" and tried to tell you how i saw the 2 pictures you posted. This is not about who you are and what you do and who you'll be, man.
This is just a guy from xxx miles away, who's no one, who's trying to pass you his thoughts and readings and sometimes experience or knowledge, and that's all. Nothing serious. You don't owe me anything and i'm in no way superior to you, none.
And i'm not here to make myself look good at the expense of others. Or even just look good. Saying my 2 cents, for it's what it's worth.
So there's nothing condescending in what i said. I'm sure you have reasons to react like that to my post, you're not faking it, but do know that i don't fake it either. I'm not some vilain hidden behind a keyboard trying to troll you or whatever.
Man, i know it sounds really far from the world's reality, but i'm all for love, peace and friendship!
Sorry if it was too much, and re-reading your initial post, i saw that you were not happy about those 2 drawings, and that you didi'nt even wanted to post them. But it's not where you will stay forever as an artist, it's a proof of your progress!
Back to what i wanted to say to you, in simple words:
- I think those 2 drawings have too strong lines because realism is -and you said it right- about shades and transitions by gradients. But they are looking good and are anatomically right.
- When i said "too expressive", it was in opposition to "realistic". When looking at them i couldn't say "is it a picture or a drawing?". Does it make them bad drawings? Absolulty not.
- When i was saying "they're not drawing the full structure with a 4H", i meant that they're not doing the guidelines, big lines, overall dimensions & shapes... The initial skeleton (or grid) of the drawing which will help puttting things where they should be, from the reference. This was not directed at you, i was talking about artists i saw. I only see the end product, i really don't know how you did it from A to Z, i can't know that.
Now, i know i will restrain from giving you advice because it seems to be lost in translation and ends in a negative feeling.
I believe it will be better for you and me and that's all that counts.
I will repeat it: i love your works and i firmly believe you're already somewhere high. Me not helping you is not going to stop you, and i hope nothing will!
You are passionate and it's an asset in my book.
With time my english should improve, thanks to you guys, and maybe i'll be able to make my comments more precise and therefore constructive.
Peace and let's continue on different subjects, so we don't get infuriated, bad or whatever is not good for us.
With all due respect,
DKJ
I honestly didnt mean to upset you DKJ. I even put a silly note on my drawing for you. I honestly deep down in my heart didnt mean to upset you..Maybe I was too full on and I apologise. Its upset me that you feel bad. Its bad karma for me.
Your broken english isnt bad. look at what you have just written. you explained perfectly.
Let me explain better. I didnt understand why you said what you said and I repeatedly asked for your help because you said stuff I didnt know about. That means I need to learn it. And i am on here to learn so I asked you for help on each point you raised and said why I didnt understand.
Im not furious at your words or Jumping on your words...But this is a learning forum so when you offered criticism i wanted you to explain how i could get better. And if you couldnt explain I suggested maybe put a picture up you have done to help explain what you meant. A picture speaks a thousands words, and doesnt need language.lol.
I told someone else on this forum that their skull drawing needed work. So i offered a couple of basic art techniques he could google himself and showed him a phone app that can be used to draw skulls from every angle. I criticised his skull but then offered answers to those criticisms.
So does that make sense? Criticism is good, very good. its how we grow. but we only grow if we know what we have done wrong. So I kept asking for your help.
Im sorry if this upset you.
I dont want to avoid you but if you want me to then i will because i want you to be happy.
peace and love
Ronan
No ignore button, let's just roll with the flow, thanks for your kind words !
Peace,
DKJ
- Starter
- #15
Hey ronin
Heres my interpretation of the statue david….. I must say that I found this an absolute pain in the arse I nearly gave up several times and im just glad I finished it..i thought id draw it mate incase you want to bounce any ideas of me....I could do with another couple of hours on it but im not gonna cause im sick of it..
Thats really good mate. How big is it? looks small. mine are 15" high. Just curious. I know what you mean about frustration. my drawing of david is far from finished as you can tell. I went about it in the wrong way thinking i could do such a big piece all at once without getting frustrated. So ive scrapped it .
To be honest mate Ive gone back to drawing board.
I have literally gone right back to the beginning. lol. I dug out an old study book written by a professional artist and lecturer and im going to work through it. I decided to after yet another carcrash set of forum posts on here. I realise that some people dont want to help or cant help and but still want to get involved in posts that dont concern them. so heres a couple of eyes this morning.lol. With a hello.lol
Very few people on here want to help..so thanks for being one of the very few people on here who carry themselves like a decent human being. After this i wont be posting at all apart from maybe private messages. Its just not worth it for me sadly. I got sucked back in once when i tried to help another person only to be followed around .
Peace to those who help others and who tried to help me.
.
Art is subjective. Like anything there is no 1 way of doing things, just easier ways of doing things.
The two pictures i posted earlier were unfinished drawings. I put them up to ask for advice but that is another story. I dont know how mucknasty gets to his finished portraits but i am sure he will put up some pictures if he wants show his progress.
It is practically impossible to draw a portrait without any structure at all. or like tex says, a framework.
I love portraits and it will be what I eventually specialise in in my tattooing career.
these are 2 drawings ive done. the dali is what im working on now when i get time. The other one is a drawing of my wife that i did for someone else so i dont have the finished product anymore.
sometimes i draw a grid to get good ratio and sometimes i sketch a rough out line and adjust it as i work round the portrait.
Then i lightly shade in the darkest areas for my guidance later on.
Then i personally start at the top, the hair. Slowly building up shades to compliment the picture. I then work in the opposite direction of tattooing. I go down and to the right. it avoids smudging to a certain degree.
You can see by my hand how big these pictures are.
Id advise starting smaller because the smaller pictures are much easier to draw.
Like I keep saying, there are much much better artists than me out there who will offer better advice. there are loads of techniques and tips. example ..mucknasty recommended a grey scale card, which i personally am not keen on but is a good tool to use.
that's perfect....exactly what I was wondering. I've tried a couple realism pieces and I think it boils down to I just don't have the patience you guys that are so good at it do. I can't imagine sitting down for 5 hours on the same drawing...or painting...hell, even I tattoo fast. 
its cool watching that stuff take shape the way it does. Just so far outside of my comfort zone. This is the only portrait I've ever really tried...watercolor on arches. I had a real basic outline of the shapes I wanted but that was it. It was a LOT of fun to step outside of the norm though...maybe I'll try more.
its cool watching that stuff take shape the way it does. Just so far outside of my comfort zone. This is the only portrait I've ever really tried...watercolor on arches. I had a real basic outline of the shapes I wanted but that was it. It was a LOT of fun to step outside of the norm though...maybe I'll try more.
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I love it so i get into " flow " and time flies by. My friend used to say he would tattoo all day and night if he could but has to shut his shop and go to bed at some point.lol.
Some people want to tattoo because they think its cool or need a job and not because they love it so to them its a chore or hard work. others love it so the time flies by. The more it challenges me the better...but Its all relative i guess.
Some people want to tattoo because they think its cool or need a job and not because they love it so to them its a chore or hard work. others love it so the time flies by. The more it challenges me the better...but Its all relative i guess.
I could tattoo all day...actually have. Friday the 13th we go from noon to 3-4 in the morning and it's just a blast. Can't imagine drawing that long. Totally get the flow thing...easy to just get lost in the good time.
Friday the 13th we go from noon to 3-4 in the morning and it's just a blast. Can't imagine drawing that long. Totally get the flow thing...easy to just get lost in the good time.
- Starter
- #27
Yeah I agree .. I got put off drawing years ago when I could see what people could do and thought I could never get to that level and thought I would never be good enough to pursue a career in tattooing..then I stared drawing again just over 18 month ago and got better with each drawing I did and started feeling happy with what ive achieved ...its the only regret in life Ive had, not doing something with a love I have for creating...wich now isnt a regret cos im giving it a shot..as a child when asked "what do you want to be when your older" i always said "im gonna be an artist". Everything i draw is geared towards tattoing... I approach things to you ronin..ive gone as far as making a full on stencil with a light coloured pencil so i can get used to following one .. J get lost in parts of pictures easily..especially hair...the frankenstien drawing was done this way i used tracing paper ro make a stencil and transfered it to paper.. Thinking what tones i would go in at not using a rubber or blending tricks..i used to put my pencil in my machine to get used to the weight of it.. I like all kinds of critisim .i value DJKs critism on here cos he has a very keen eye for detail..my nephews by far my fiercest critic he picks up on everything.even though he cant draw as good as me.. I normally know where ive went wrong and where i can improve but sometimes other people see little things you dont..wich i think you need to be told in order to keep pushing yourself further
Heres the pic of frankensteins monster
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Borikuatattoo
Basic
Really nice
I never thought about tracing pictures like you muck. That's a good idea. It's going to make things a lot easier especially considering its similar to tattoo process.
This is the latest thing I've done. It's about 15 inches high on 170gsm though so it's quite big. I'm going to trace my next one like you mucknasty and do it smaller. Makes it so much easier and you're right that it's closer to the tattooing process.
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