Cartridge System for Rotary Machines?

yutani · 9 Dec 2014

Been intrigued by these cartridge systems for awhile now, even more so when I found out they aren't exclusive to Cheyene machines, but are adaptable for use with most rotary machines too?

What are the pro/cons of using these? Where and who are the best suppliers?

I'm looking to have a play with them but I'm unsure as to what I'd actually need to order to replace my current standard disposable tubes and needle set-up?

Cheers for any input guys as always, look forward to reading your thoughts

toetoe62 · 9 Dec 2014

the cheapest way for you to try them is t-tech, they do the tube and grip for about £12 and also most needle groupings, just google t-tech and you will get their site, i only use the original hawk carts now but that is just preference, i used the t-tech for a while and had good results, if you want better quality then go to barber dts they have the hawk fix grip for just under £20, thats the one i would recommend as a starter but also they do the adjustable grips, the 22mm is £115 and the 25mm is £125, all of them take the t-tech and hawk carts, if you buy the grip but your not sure about what carts to buy, send me your address in a private message and ill send you a few of each so you can make your own mind up, t-tech are in canada so you don't want to be ordering a box at a time you want to spend quite a bit to make it worth it but the hawk original carts can be bought from most tattoo shops online, the difference is they are about three times dearer than the t-tech, a box of 10 hawk originals are about £22-£23 a box of 20 t-tech are around £15-£17 so twice as much for less money.

yutani · 9 Dec 2014

Cheers for the info Tony, appreciated

.

The grip you suggest isn't disposable though and as I have no autoclave is this really an option for me?

Ink sponge · 9 Dec 2014

http://www.ezcartridge.co.uk/product/disposable-cartridge-grips

http://www.killerinktattoo.co.uk/box-of-15-ego-biohawk-disposable-cartridge-tubes-grey

I use the ego grips if you want I'll send you one to try.

toetoe62 · 9 Dec 2014

people don,t autoclave these grips,especially the adjustable one and they don't do any other type, the cart should be the only thing that can come in contact with anything that can contaminate, you can buy a roll of sleeves for about £10 and they cover the machine and power chord and then just wipe the grip down after every time you use it, or as adrian suggested use ego grips, they are a really good price if you buy the box of 15.

hYSobe · 9 Dec 2014

You can use a cartridge with any machines there's so many different grips now which accept cartridges, you just have to look around, i personally think once you convert to cartridges you wont want to convert back

pro's:

- They're VERY quick to switch between machines, for example if you're doing a realism piece and you're working by completion of each section you can switch mags/liners in a matter of seconds without plugging other machines in etc

- most of the tube tips on carts are plastic, so causing less trauma to the skin instead of sharp metal tips grazing the skin, also no stainless steel fragments go into the skin where the needles normally wears the steel away on traditional grips

- if you find a machine you like and that is balanced you can literally use one machine for everything

- the consistency is so much more than other machines! no more messing around with rubber bands, bending needles, setting depth, with a cartridge you clip it in and boom, it's 100% the same depth EVERY time, which eliminates problems and makes you more consistent

- being disposable they're easy to throw away, open a packet

- Sometimes clients cant handle the whole tattoo, when i tattoo with my cartridges i leave the cart packaged until i go to shade, for example i line something traditional, sometimes people call it a day after the lining, so i havent actually opened my shader yet, so nothing is wasted.. unlike a coil machine you kind of have to set everything up before hand..

cons:

- the expense of cartridges compared to stainless grips, normal needles

they're safe to use IF you do it correctly, a lot of people don't bag theirs up in a good way which is risky, i've tried TTech and Cheyenne carts i prefer TTech by a mile personally

marked 4 life · 9 Dec 2014

Regarding needle depth on carts Jamie, can you still choose between riding the tip and the needles?

Ink sponge · 9 Dec 2014

All of the t tech carts I've ordered have always come with a 5 year expiry date on them. So there's not much chance of having to throw them away or give them somebody for practice which happens a lot with loose needles.

You'll need a good quality rotary with a powerful motor to push them. I've tried them with a clone and it got hot really quickly.

Ink sponge · 9 Dec 2014

Here's a clip of wrapping a grip

yutani · 9 Dec 2014

So in theory I could buy 1 or 2 grips and do away with all the different sized disposable tubes that I currently use? The only varying part is the cartridge itself, yet they all fit the standard grip?

This is really interesting and makes me wanna try them out. The plug n play aspect is very appealing. Maybe I should've investigated further before buying a 3rd machine as could've swapped from say a round shader to a curved mag and back again in seconds. Damn haha..

yutani · 9 Dec 2014

As for the machines I'd be using I think the Ikarus DD and A-Bar will be plenty powerful enough, right?

Am I also right in thinking these cartridge systems do away with the need of rubber bands?

Gutted that I have another Ikarus A-Bar on the way as if these cartridges work the way I'm lead to believe I've only real need for the 2 machines I already have..

Ink sponge · 9 Dec 2014

I use a RW ID liner and springer for carts so two machines. Similar to your two just different manufacturer. Just like some hawk users have a spirit and thunder. Personally I don't use rubber bands as it increases the noise whilst running and also increases the resistance so your motor life will be more limited.

toetoe62 · 9 Dec 2014

the carts do need some pushing, i'v never used a Ikarus A-Bar so i can't say if the motors are good enough, weather you need to use a band or not depends on how the machine is set up, if the tube and grip are in line you should be ok but if the motion of the motor works the needle bar loose then just pop a band on to keep it in place, the good thing about the more expensive machines is they are so well made that they don't vibrate much at all and the motors will keep going all day every day and twice on sunday so they are ideal machines for the cart system, obviously the hawk machines are the ideal machine because they where made for that system but they are dear, there is some cheap knock off carts advertised on eBay but don't be tempted they are crap, they look a little like the original hawk carts but trust me, there is no such thing as a cheap hawk cartridge but for a very small investment you can give the real ones a try, before you commit yourself and buy loads of carts.

Ink sponge · 9 Dec 2014

Going off on a tangent slightly folks

Sorry but I can't resist.
Take a look at this BAD ASS machine

cymek74 · 9 Dec 2014

Ikarus push carts with absolutely no problems, and because they don't have stay up springs, using carts is just like adding one, the difference in amps from standard set up to carts is very slight.

yutani · 9 Dec 2014

@toetoe62 @Ink sponge @hYSobe @cymek74 .. Thank you all for the invaluable input, and exactly the reason I 'effin love this site sooo much

..

Here's what I'm thinking..

Buy 2x http://www.barberdts.co.uk/cheyenne-19mm-fixed-grip-stainless-steel.html (1 for my Ikarus DD Liner / 1 for my Ikarus A-Bar Packer/Shader).

Although I am a bit concerned with keeping them clean and sterile?

And a selection of cartridges. My stock of needles at the moment consist of:

Round Liners.. 5, 9 &14.
Round Shaders.. 5, 9 &14.
Curved Magnums.. 7 & 13.

Would it be going overboard replacing all these with the T-Tech cartridge equivalent?
I understand they are a Canadian supplier so what can expect shipping costs to be approx?
What kind of delivery times can I expect if ordering from them?
Also will I get any customs charges?
I see http://www.ezcartridge.co.uk/ is based in the UK, right? Not much stock on there though?

Sorry for all the questions again guys

hYSobe · 9 Dec 2014

yutani said:
@toetoe62 @Ink sponge @hYSobe @cymek74 .. Thank you all for the invaluable input, and exactly the reason I 'effin love this site sooo much ..

Here's what I'm thinking..

Buy 2x http://www.barberdts.co.uk/cheyenne-19mm-fixed-grip-stainless-steel.html (1 for my Ikarus DD Liner / 1 for my Ikarus A-Bar Packer/Shader).

Although I am a bit concerned with keeping them clean and sterile?

And a selection of cartridges. My stock of needles at the moment consist of:

Round Liners.. 5, 9 &14.
Round Shaders.. 5, 9 &14.
Curved Magnums.. 7 & 13.

Would it be going overboard replacing all these with the T-Tech cartridge equivalent?
I understand they are a Canadian supplier so what can expect shipping costs to be approx?
What kind of delivery times can I expect if ordering from them?
Also will I get any customs charges?
I see http://www.ezcartridge.co.uk/ is based in the UK, right? Not much stock on there though?

Sorry for all the questions again guys

probably wasting your time with the round shaders bud? personal opinion only, if you need to use a round shader for some stuff just use a 14RL instead, pretty much the same results just have to be a tad more careful

save you a lot of money too, but everyone likes different needles i guess

the shipping price accords to the weight, you'll get a customs charge through about a week after too (also depends on the weight) about 20-25£ normally, try to ask them to send it as a GIFT so maybe you might avoid custom charge, they actually deliver very quick!! i always had mine within like 3 days from TTech/canada

now EZcartridge are on the come up in my opinion, i've only tried their liners so far, i knwo they took them off their site as they still need some tweaking and some work, but i'm pretty sure they'll get there soon and be good, then will not have to order any more from canada

i haven't tried EZcartridge mags yet because they only used to have #12 but recently they've released #10 bugpin curved mags so i've ordered a tester strip of 5 for £5 which i will try soon and compare with the TTech mags, i will let you know how they are compared

yutani · 9 Dec 2014

Cheers Jamie sound advice..

I know what you're saying about the Round Shaders. I really should rely more on Curved Mags for all my packing and shading.
Maybe RS are a bit of a comfort blanket for me

..

3 days shipping? That's impressive!

Ummm.. should I order tonight hopefully be here for weekend

hYSobe · 9 Dec 2014

yutani said:
Cheers Jamie sound advice..

I know what you're saying about the Round Shaders. I really should rely more on Curved Mags for all my packing and shading.
Maybe RS are a bit of a comfort blanket for me ..

3 days shipping? That's impressive!

Ummm.. should I order tonight hopefully be here for weekend

fair play, each to their own

you can probably do with that 7 curved mag what you can do with a round shader though i'd say?

just a thought

you could do, they never ask for licenses or nothing and you can get them ordered to your home which is quite hassle free

yutani · 9 Dec 2014

I think I'm gonna bite the bullet and get these cartridges ordered without the Round Shaders..

So I'm presuming you use the official Cheyenne grip (non disposable). Do you bag your machines then?
How do you go about protecting from pathogens etc? What type of bags are you using, any pointers?
That video @Ink sponge posted earlier was pretty cool solution with wrapping the grip in cling film

..

Anyways @hYSobe .. and everyone elses contribution.. Brilliant, thanks again

hYSobe · 9 Dec 2014

http://www.powerlinesupplies.co.uk/...ips/Cheyenne-Hawk-Hand-Grip---25mm_101880.htm

i use one of these, i've been looking to be as consistent as i can lately, i wind it out as far as i can go, and then i click it in and count how many clicks (twisting it adjusts depth) so i know exactly how to get the 100% same depth every tattoo

i think these grips are only compatible with the inkjecta flite 2.1 and the cheyenne hawks (Because the screw bit)

i wrap it in a way that nothing can touch the stainless grip, basically there is a seal between my machine and grip to the cartridge so there is a barrier inbetween them so the cartridge is basically touching nothing, i still rub everything down after use though

the cartridges are sealed nothing can escape them, i used to use clingfilm in the past however it's so thin i used to double layer it, i can maybe make a video sometime showing a few ways to safely wrap it if needed

yutani · 9 Dec 2014

hYSobe said:
the cartridges are sealed nothing can escape them, i used to use clingfilm in the past however it's so thin i used to double layer it, i can maybe make a video sometime showing a few ways to safely wrap it if needed

Yeah that would be awesome buddy

Ink sponge · 10 Dec 2014

If your going for the Cheyenne stainless steel fixed grip there only 19mm. The sleeves killer ink sell are bigger and won't fit. The stainless grip is also quite heavy at 6 oz. I have a stainless grip but rarley use it due to the weight.
There are some other options bishop and FK irons sell fixed grips also they cost more but weight less.
It's down to your budget and what your comfortable using.
I use the ego grips because there light and I like the shape and feel of them. They take more vibration out than a stainless grip does.
If you go with the stainless you can get a cover for them from killerink to make them more comfortable to use and beef it up a bit and there only £4.

yutani · 10 Dec 2014

Ink sponge said:
There are some other options bishop and FK irons sell fixed grips also they cost more but weight less.

Ink sponge said:
If you go with the stainless you can get a cover for them from killerink to make them more comfortable to use and beef it up a bit and there only £4.

Yeah I am a bit worried about the weight and size, so I'll have a look into these.. Cheers Adrian

toetoe62 · 10 Dec 2014

with your liners it's a good thing to remember that both the t-tech and hawk carts are tighter than your conventional needles so a 7 is like a 5 and a 5 is more like a 3 i mostly use 5 and 7 liner and 7 and 13 curved mags, iv got a few 28s for much larger stuff but they don't come out very often, i completely agree with Jamie about the round shaders and the rest of your list looks about right, the tip with cling film is spot on, i use the sleeves but they are made for my machines and they don't fit over other machines, hawks are much slimmer, most people i know who have changed over to this system don't go back and find that there lining improves over knight.

yutani · 10 Dec 2014

toetoe62 said:
with your liners it's a good thing to remember that both the t-tech and hawk carts are tighter than your conventional needles so a 7 is like a 5 and a 5 is more like a 3 i mostly use 5 and 7 liner and 7 and 13 curved mags, iv got a few 28s for much larger stuff but they don't come out very often, i completely agree with Jamie about the round shaders and the rest of your list looks about right, the tip with cling film is spot on, i use the sleeves but they are made for my machines and they don't fit over other machines, hawks are much slimmer, most people i know who have changed over to this system don't go back and find that there lining improves over knight.

Cheers @toetoe62

That's a good shout. I currently have 5, 9 & 14 Round Liners in my cart at T-Tech along with 7 & 13 Curved Mags.
Think I'll checkout with what I have and fingers crossed they arrive for weekend so I can have a play

yutani · 11 Dec 2014

Ok so my Cheyenne Grips came today and with a few sample cartridges courtesy of @toetoe62 I wanted to have a play..

Stupid question time

!!

So what is the correct procedure to set these grips and cartridges with my Ikarus rotaries?
Insert cart into grip first and then onto the machine? I'm not so sure I'm doing it right?
Sorry I know it's a bit vague but I'm not sure the stem of the Cheyenne grips are long enough to feed through the clamp/vice..

Am I making sense? Sorry it's late and I've just got in from a late shift

Help

Edit..

Well tried setting up my shader with the cart/grip and thats fine from what I can tell..
What I'm trying to say is that on my liner, the stem of the grip at it's lowest point to clamp properly, the needle bar is pushing the cartridge needle to hangout a lot? I hope that makes it clearer as to what I mean?
Now I don't ride the tube but the amount this protrudes even on the up stroke is concerning me

Double Edit..

I've just seen that other compatible grips come with a selection of different length drive bars, I think I need a shorter drive bar than the Cheyenne grip comes with. That would allow me to clamp the stem higher and have a less protruding needle.. Right?

Anyone know where I can get a shorter drive bar from?

Ink sponge · 12 Dec 2014

The cheyeenne grip does have a long drive bar. The Ego grips come with shorter bars. If I was to use the cheyeenne I'd put the ego bar in there that way my machines are closer to the back of my hand which I prefere. You can cut the end off which will help. You could buy some shorter bars or I will send you a shorter bar.

yutani · 12 Dec 2014

Ink sponge said:
The cheyeenne grip does have a long drive bar. The Ego grips come with shorter bars. If I was to use the cheyeenne I'd put the ego bar in there that way my machines are closer to the back of my hand which I prefere. You can cut the end off which will help. You could buy some shorter bars or I will send you a shorter bar.

@Ink sponge if you could send me a shorter bar that would be great

.. I'd obviously pay you

I think the Cheyenne bars are like 88mm in length whereas I need a drive bar at around 84mm. I'd would buy one but I can't see anywhere apart from T-Tech themselves that sell them separatley, and I wont be ordering from them again until I need some more carts (I have 100 on the way)..

You suggested cutting it down but I don't really wanna go down that route and wouldn't I lose the ball/nipple at the end if I did? I'd be worried that may affect performance too..?

Ink sponge · 12 Dec 2014

PM your address I'll post u one

Don't worry about the cost it's only the price of a stamp.

yutani · 12 Dec 2014

@Ink sponge.. PM'd buddy

Just wondered if I ordered these http://www.barberdts.co.uk/tatsoul-wrath-cartrigde-grip-1-x-20pcs.html#.VIq1XTGsW9U
would the bars included with them be OK?

Ink sponge · 12 Dec 2014

Yes because there are three different options but you would need to buy two packs to use two bars the same size.

yutani · 12 Dec 2014

Ink sponge said:
Yes because there are three different options but you would need to buy two packs to use two bars the same size.

Ah yeah of course, but as I said the Cheyenne Grip/Bar for my Shader seems OK..

Would cutting the bar for my Liner set-up just be a case of snipping it to required length with a pair of pliers? Would I lose anything performance wise removing the ball/nipple on the end?

Ink sponge · 12 Dec 2014

If you only cut one then you got the other as a back up. Might be slightly noisier with the ball removed. You'll get the one I'll send you next week so problem solved.

toetoe62 · 12 Dec 2014

Why don't you just cut a needle bar from one of your liners or shaders or are they made from different gage wire than the Cheyenne push bar.

yutani · 12 Dec 2014

I snipped the ball on one of the Cheyenne Drive Bar's. Seems to have done the trick until I get the shorter ones @Ink sponge has kindly donated

Thanks again guys

Ink sponge · 12 Dec 2014

The drive bars are stronger than a standard needle bar.

Cartridge System for Rotary Machines?

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I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

I may be synthetic.. but I'm not stupid!

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