Thoughts inspired by Ronan

How do we get more from the site and grow as tattoo artists?? A soapbox musing by Tex

I think more than anything people who need help need to ask for what specific help they need.
it would be nice to see critiques again, rather than "nice jobs". My mentor picked my shit apart...everything. Made me better every time. He still does. he will like something on instagram then send me a text saying "why is that line so f'n weak???" And it's funny because it kills him to be critical.

Every critique from someone not doing confident work should come from a place of sharing how they worked through the challenges. Not trying to sound smart and fix people when you can't fix yourself. Since this is a self-taught forum, it's full of self-taught artists. Relate challenges to challenges YOU'VE had...and how you were able to overcome them. Or if you were not able, say that...make people feel ok for struggling just like you are.

Comment on technique- not personal feelings on tattoo choice A critique can be broken into line work, shading, fill. That's it. When those three things are solid, then you tell them their drawing sucks. If you don't like watercolor...who cares...is the ink in solid? Don't like the "scratchy" stuff? Doesn't matter...was it applied well to achieve the look? My disdain for algebra has NOTHING to do with performing the process. Nobody needs to know that I think equations suck.

This is a member run site. We control the quality of the education available. When was the last time someone asked for help with lines? With shading? With getting solid fills? What sort of advice did they get? Did they accept it, or did they simply brush it off? I know, and I'm not proud of it, I've run off people by being honest. If you want an "atta girl, or you rock" post your picture on your mom's fridge.

I was given so much from this site and some of the members. I'd like to keep that going and see some of you insanely gifted artists make the translation to tattooist.

I agree with Mark. When I joined and posted some pics of my work I thought was good they got ripped apart and I thought I totally sucked and had to make myself learn more and get better. Mark (TexasPT) was a big part of the helpful critiques I got. I still try to chime in and give some critiques but do not do it as much as I should maybe. I will try my part at keeping this a great site to learn from. I do not mind being the not nice guy from Texas, lol. JK I try to keep everything as positive as possible.

What i think can be upgraded are:
- The original training manual, i read it again and found it very vague on many topics,
- Some sticky subject for beginners, with identified subjects like "how to apply a stencil", "problems with lining" or "can't fill with color" which are coming back each and every month > newbies could access them
- A clear set of rules when you post your works for critique, and what people should come up with (see what Mark wrote earlier).

There seems to be a growing number of active posters, posting or giving their advice, and that's great!

Peace,

DKJ

Not worrying about how to change the site. How do we change ourselves...how do we become better teachers and students??

Not discounting your input here...but everything in tattooing is subjective. It's personal. Rules have to be your rules...not universal. Too many ways to find success but it takes trial and error. To stick rules and suggest they are the only way is counter-productive and goes against everything art is in general. (my opinion)

small circles or shovel movement?
push or pull line?
hang needle or ride tube?
Intenze or Fusion?
Can I shade with lining ink? Can I line with triple black???
cartridges or traditional?
coils or rotary...and should my rotary be a pen or direct drive or have give and should it use traditional needles or cartridges?

I can only tell you what works for me...and you can try it and see if it works for you

Offense taken.

I will reach your backyard with 2 old pistols and we'll see which gentleman was right!

Naaaw... I was just thinking about some kind of adjustements for us beginners.

I totally feel you about the kind of advice you're thinking of, and also about who should do it (been there too experience).
But isn't it the way it's worknig today?

Peace,

DKJ

I'm just thinking out loud. We've lost some good members because we've collectively been more focused on (my personal observation not gospel truth) our opinions rather than the quest for making everyone better. Have you noticed a lot of familiar names no longer posting? I've come close to shutting it down here too. There has to be a reason.

Maybe i'm too new here, my observation was to see old members popping out lately, but you have a broader view.

Peace,

DKJ

I was close to quitting this site but a few comments kept me here. I felt bullied for not having the correct opinion. Its strange to me but maybe im too old for that """my opinion is more important that your fact""" world we seem to live in now.
I am more than happy to see critical observations from an educational point of view. P!ss taking and joking arent abuse..abuse is abuse. but people can think this is the same thing.
I believe in helping others up..not pushing them down to make you look better..

Now the honesty. Tex and only Tex kept me here....Thats an awkward fact. Hes taken the p!ss and mocked me but he has also offered solid advice and has been consistent. Hes taken the p!ss about me being an engineer and also made me change my avatar from the one of me topless because I think it made him question his sexuality..maybe.lol. But I have actaully learnt from him. real world tattooing stuff. Im also rounding up 10 friends and family to tattoo in the next couple of weeks to post for his critisim. that cant be right on a site this size. He cant be the only decent mentor like contributor...I just refuse to believe it.

If I can I too will try and offer advice from my level only obvs. some smart person once said we all have something to teach. I know some really dumb people so that may not be true.

LOTS of smart folks on here...

but thanks. I appreciate those comments. I just enjoy teaching. And go back to sexy half naked man if need be...I won't use it often.

You know Mark, and i told you in your last work post (sailor girl), there has to be more than just technique.

As much as a "i don't like your design" is an useless comment, there's a lot to understand about design, coupled to technique.

You excel in color choices, maybe it's something you can't explain, but it doesn't come from nowhere.
So, i can analyse on my own why your colors are looking so damn' good, if you can't spell it out for me.

But then there's also a bunch of illustrators here who can definitly push us to go further, and design compliments technique as well.
But as you said, comments must have to come from a "you'll get better" voice.

I only see good people here, but i guess we all have our lives, like on any other forums, and we can't be here all week long commenting.

Soulstare or Malin or Valentin for example, they are here and then they're disapearing for some times.maybe they have nothing new to say or show... Maybe they're working hard...
If we keep having these friendly convos and help people, these forums will stay.


Peace,

DKJ

DKJ said:

Soulstare or Malin or Valentin for example, they are here and then they're disapearing for some times.maybe they have nothing new to say or show... Maybe they're working hard

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I've been on here for six years (had another account first 6 months) and never took a break before

Now I've been off here for about 2 months or so, deliberately. Like Mark says, it's too much space wasted on commenting what we like and not. I want to learn something - and hopefully teach a little - not get people's private opinions.

This has been a goldmine for me on my tattoo journey, and my aim has been to give some back. So I'm coming back now, giving it another try.

My god, Malin!

I never thought you were bored, i thought you were openning your studio!

Thing is i can imagine there are some steps to enchantment here:
- Starting with newbies questions,
- Pulling your first tattoo on fake skin, asking questions,
- Pulling your first tat on real skin, ask a lot of questions,
- Starting to put things together, ask very specific questions to those who know
- Becoming a pro, asking ultra specific asking questions to a 5 people audience.

There's a limit to these forums, in the end only those who like to share will be the last to stay.

> Maybe the videos idea of Ronan could push back a lot of interest into the forums.

Peace,

DKJ

What I liked about this forum was and is the diversity of opinions, people, techniques etc. Tattooing is not a read-and-do activity and I read as many comments, hints and tips as possible, because one of them is bound to help me out in some way or another.

The fact that it's user content on this forum also means it's not a school, but a way to share my questions, solutions, opinion or whatever, and get a reaction (or not) from another user, just like me.

I like it just like that

And about those videos... are they meant to show how other people do it, like youtube also has a lot of, or are they meant to show how it 'should be done'?

DKJ said:

Starting with newbies questions,
- Pulling your first tattoo on fake skin, asking questions,
- Pulling your first tat on real skin, ask a lot of questions,
- Starting to put things together, ask very specific questions to those who know
- Becoming a pro, asking ultra specific asking questions to a 5 people audience.

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I think you're probably right about this.

About those staying on the forum - I think there are others on here who stay out of responsibility - the time and energy we've gotten from others when we were new, we want to give back to the new ones now

MalligaMallan said:

I think you're probably right about this.

About those staying on the forum - I think there are others on here who stay out of responsibility - the time and energy we've gotten from others when we were new, we want to give back to the new ones now

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yep...has a lot to do with it.

balooka said:

W

And about those videos... are they meant to show how other people do it, like youtube also has a lot of, or are they meant to show how it 'should be done'?

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I think they show how other people do it. Too many variables in tattooing to feel one way is better than another. They are just different. So all I can say is "this way works for me." It's up to you whether or not you give it a try.

There are so many good people on here and im slowly starting to recognise names... There are also many many people who pop their heads in and dont say anything..as for unique single views I have no idea.
What I do know is the more people who comment then the more knowledge and real world tips and techniques get spread around. Thats probably obvious...Yes more d!ckheads too,but if we dont feed them then they will fall by the wayside.

The whole thing is organic i guess.
My personal opinion on you tube videos is that most of them dont want to teach anything and or they try to cover loads of subjects in one short video..More showing off that teaching. A few better ones are popping up now that we have spoken about on another thread.

But I almost guarantee that even the best tattooists on here will still watch a short close up real time lining videos with perfect form even though you dont need the help.
Or maybe new techniques that tattooists have come up with that they want to share with this community pushing this site over the horrible monopoly that you tube has become...
Maybe short videos of lining etc done by amateurs that can be critiqued on technique...where we can learn where we are going wrong or doing right.
The potential is endless...
And if people come for help and are pointed to a large collection of very specific tattooing learning videos they are more likely to join.

I dont know how or if its possible but I am happy to help if i can.

Whats nice is the same thing is getting repeated by the people who have been here a bit longer......"help others like they were helped"....

Just my experience from participating in a music forum for almost 15 years: there's a frustration raising after a few years which come from the loss of the excitment you have when you start discovering the information.
Like with drugs, you never live again the first highs you had. It feels repetitive. You've already heard this and that, novelty becomes rare.
New people arrive and you and your mates are trying to give them the best experience.
Then more and more people arrive, some older participants leave, and everything has changed.
So you get less excitment and a lot of nostalgia is felt.

So i believe that it's up to you, who's made these forum alive, to ultimatly manage what direction they're taking.
Ronan is full of energy and good ideas, and you know what the forum needs, so don't let us down and please let us know which posting rules are good (exactly what Mark proposed and it seems to be validated by Malin).

There's a great diversity here, let's not lose our experienced mates, so... What do you, vip gold members, will make you stay?
Where can we, newbies, help you?
Honest questions here.

I think Mucknasty and Ronan can bring many realism advice and tips, i think i can be a good critic, a lot of designers can help on color theory...

This is a very important topic.

And what about where you are in this self taught experience? Mark, if you find the time to tell us how you manage your days in this new studio, i'm sure it'll have a better following than Game of Thrones!

Malin could share all the things she had to think about and do to open her studio!

Peace,

DKJ

TexasPT said:

I'm just thinking out loud. We've lost some good members because we've collectively been more focused on (my personal observation not gospel truth) our opinions rather than the quest for making everyone better. Have you noticed a lot of familiar names no longer posting? I've come close to shutting it down here too. There has to be a reason.

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I've come close to calling it quits here, im certainly dont post all my work here anymore. But there are a few people who's opinins ive grown to respect and truly appreciate so i stick around. Plus if i can help someone else then thats a plus as well.

My issue is I feel like some people critiquing never post their own work so its hard to believe and respect what some say. I could go watch some of the well known people tattoo on YouTube and spout off things i hear them say because it sounds smart and works for them. however i dont like to give advice if im not or havnt done it or tried it myself.

Every forum has a self-appointed expert. It's usually a revolving door and when one leaves another steps in. When I started here it was Tattoo Jay...couldn't tattoo to save his fucking life but spent all his time building himself up to feel smart and regurgitating stuff he read online or saw in a video.

I'm not qualified to do anything more than say what works, or doesn't work for me. I still get nervous, I still fuck up a line now and then, I still don't fill solid at times...I'm getting better but I'd never take on an apprentice...so here I don't try to be a mentor. Just a guy that's fucked it up more than you so hopefully you can pull something from my experiences. . But in an arena where we all are just trying to get better you take the good with the bad and just see what makes sense to you.

my .02

As a full-on newbie I would like to say that I have been reading postings from this site since I discovered it 6 months ago.

Now that I am premium, I have been brave enough to post. I value all of those familiar names and the fact that they/you have stuck around. I hope to learn a lot from you guys! ?