Needle depth and measuring help?
- Starter tiriljanett
- Start date
Fast track your progress with the world's premier training program the Artist Accelerator
I have a Sharpz Microdial and a couple of Rotary Works ID liners now. Used all three on different recent pieces trying to find best option.
Previously I used only coils for lining, a few 'no names' to start with, including a couple of aluminium bodies my dad manufactured for me, moving on to a Sharpz hybrid, which was never tuned optimally for lining but did OK with a slow(ish) hand speed.
Best liner I had (still have) was a single-coil machine, unidentified brand despite posting a few pictures on a different forum. I don't use this now as it has a normal screw for the tube vise. Was a bit slow but light and ran smooth, easy to tune.
Previously I used only coils for lining, a few 'no names' to start with, including a couple of aluminium bodies my dad manufactured for me, moving on to a Sharpz hybrid, which was never tuned optimally for lining but did OK with a slow(ish) hand speed.
Best liner I had (still have) was a single-coil machine, unidentified brand despite posting a few pictures on a different forum. I don't use this now as it has a normal screw for the tube vise. Was a bit slow but light and ran smooth, easy to tune.
Deviantdan16
Basic
I think a lot of it has to do with the quality of the coils and copper in them from what i can tell. Johnny gault on youtube makes his own machines some of them fire up at 1v i think. Theres about a 2mm throw on the machine in question without looking at it
Another reason ive swapped to cartridges is because of how snug the needles fit in the tip. Barely no movement creating less trauma
Wow there's some garbage being posted in here today
Deviantdan16
Basic
If ur here to help people. Help. Dont just be rude pls
Is johnny gault lieing? Does he have a false power supply that lies. With the 1v thing thats unloadd btw if you took the tine to check or think about what your saying. Do all the other artists ive seen using carts with coils need to stop immediately? Do the manufacturers need to stop telling people you can use carts with a coil? At least explain yourself??
Im hear to learn. And one thing i have learnt is that most of my problems in the past have been down to technique not always machine set up ect. Different things work for different people. Some artists do amazing great portraits with a single needle and a liner. Should they stop immeditely because it doesnt fit in with your way of thinking? Ive heard the boss of london ink telling his artists to shade with a liner? Does he know what hes talking about? I think so or i dont think david beckham would have gone to him for tattoos and he certainly wouldnt be able to charge £200 an hour. What im trying to get at here is theres more than one way to skin a cat and if everybody only stuck to the same guidelines as the ones laid down by our predocessors we would still be living in caves catching our dinner with a club.
Is johnny gault lieing? Does he have a false power supply that lies. With the 1v thing thats unloadd btw if you took the tine to check or think about what your saying. Do all the other artists ive seen using carts with coils need to stop immediately? Do the manufacturers need to stop telling people you can use carts with a coil? At least explain yourself??
Im hear to learn. And one thing i have learnt is that most of my problems in the past have been down to technique not always machine set up ect. Different things work for different people. Some artists do amazing great portraits with a single needle and a liner. Should they stop immeditely because it doesnt fit in with your way of thinking? Ive heard the boss of london ink telling his artists to shade with a liner? Does he know what hes talking about? I think so or i dont think david beckham would have gone to him for tattoos and he certainly wouldnt be able to charge £200 an hour. What im trying to get at here is theres more than one way to skin a cat and if everybody only stuck to the same guidelines as the ones laid down by our predocessors we would still be living in caves catching our dinner with a club.
Although I am a newbie here, and know little to nothing compared to you guys who are experienced, I do agree that we all need to remain friendly and not insult each other. Just my opinion. I am glad of any help I get, and thank you for it gladly. On a lighter note, I would appreciate if at some time in the near future I could sit in on a session with someone in the Stoke on Trent area, get some knowledge and tips by observing. I'm willing to brew the tea 
Deviantdan16
Basic
Not strictly 100% true, take into account spring gauge, throw etc .... and bear in mind the cart is spring (or elastic band) loaded so you can have 2 lots of give lol! a coil could end up too soft hitting so you would need to crank the volts up to get the hit to penetrate the skin, if the machine is not tuned for this then it will get very, very noisy and the coils will get hot, anyway I wont comment again on this topic.
Me neither because there seems to be an expert posting.
Although I am a newbie here, and know little to nothing compared to you guys who are experienced, I do agree that we all need to remain friendly and not insult each other. Just my opinion. I am glad of any help I get, and thank you for it gladly. On a lighter note, I would appreciate if at some time in the near future I could sit in on a session with someone in the Stoke on Trent area, get some knowledge and tips by observing. I'm willing to brew the tea
I'd need to see some dedication first
Deviantdan16
Basic
What a nob
dedication? would you like to elaborate? personally i feel that wanting to be a decent artist, and buying all that i can as i can afford is pretty dedicated lol
Dedication is easy to spot and it's not just about the size of your wallet.
Post up some art work. Post up some practice skins.
There's so much that you can do that costs nothing more than time and a few basic supplies.
Print off some line drawings and then trace over them and trace over them then trace over them some more. This will improve your line work.
Print off some line work sheets and shade them with a pencil. This will improve your shading and understanding of black and grey and how shadows fall.
Practice on pig skin you can get it from morisons or your local butcher. Practice on rubber you can get off eBay. Two hours a day. You can practice line work shading and fill.
Go to tattoo conventions and watch other artists how they work or setup. Watch videos on utube. Ask questions in here.
Plenty to get you started...........
all noted thanks, but i think I have a basic understanding of lines and shades, although i do know in the inking world it will differ to my art at college all those millennia ago. I am practicing, i did a freehand straight off with the machine, lined and coloured on rubber, and then a black and grey depicting my close friends work life. but I am willing to put in the hours, Just rand greens and i can get a steady flow of skin from them.
I will say this, the shading is not so simple on rubber as it is on paper, but i did managed to get the mottled underwater effect on it that i wanted.
In terms of conventions, I can not move far from the home presently for reasons of Wife's health, but will when I can.
I will say this, the shading is not so simple on rubber as it is on paper, but i did managed to get the mottled underwater effect on it that i wanted.
In terms of conventions, I can not move far from the home presently for reasons of Wife's health, but will when I can.
all noted thanks, but i think I have a basic understanding of lines and shades, although i do know in the inking world it will differ to my art at college all those millennia ago. I am practicing, i did a freehand straight off with the machine, lined and coloured on rubber, and then a black and grey depicting my close friends work life. but I am willing to put in the hours, Just rand greens and i can get a steady flow of skin from them.
I will say this, the shading is not so simple on rubber as it is on paper, but i did managed to get the mottled underwater effect on it that i wanted.
In terms of conventions, I can not move far from the home presently for reasons of Wife's health, but will when I can.
Starting a progress thread would be good
What do you think of the id liners? I got a 4.2 one and struggle so bad with getting a decent line.
Just because a machine is marketed as a liner doesn't mean that it is one. I've had RW springers, micro Ali and IDs. Non of them lined particularly well. The ID liner didn't line any better than the springer. I have spectra rotarys now and they don't line any better than the RW machines. I'll use a rotary for a 3 a 5 at a push. Nothing lines better than my sharpz micro dial.
The ID has been "ok" for me, though I've been thinking twice about it recently, as I had some problems that I believe were down to lack of punch on slightly softer flesh (back of arms). Last piece I did was with my Microdial and (IMO) was a bit fierce for the design, a veined feather.
I did some lining on myself today as part of a coverup, riding the tubes rather than hanging the needles. Where I am right now, this is more of an issue for me, though I had some reasonable results with the ID and a 7RL. I know this is not conclusive in any way, but just highlights the issues with personal choice, styles and our different comfort zones. I want to master my Microdial, just not sure how at the minute.
To add to my slow progress...I'm recovering from knee surgery and that's slowed down the whole operation, totally frustrated.
I did some lining on myself today as part of a coverup, riding the tubes rather than hanging the needles. Where I am right now, this is more of an issue for me, though I had some reasonable results with the ID and a 7RL. I know this is not conclusive in any way, but just highlights the issues with personal choice, styles and our different comfort zones. I want to master my Microdial, just not sure how at the minute.
To add to my slow progress...I'm recovering from knee surgery and that's slowed down the whole operation, totally frustrated.
My micro dials run completely different since having them tuned by Paul Porter, some of the differences with the machines I noticed are, no O rings, hand cut springs, re shimmed coils and rear spring deck coin, the difference in running is I need no where near as many volts as before, I can turn my power supply to 0 volts, start to turn the volts up and once the machine starts to run I press the foot switch off and on so it has enough volts to stop and start the machine and thats it! that is all it needs, if I need a bigger needle or need more of an hit in a flabby area I just have to up the volts very slightly, I cant say how impressed I am with how these are tuned and would recommend anyone with a microdial who may not be getting the most from it to get it tuned, cost £40 - £50 and will come back a different machine.
I line with rotaries and coils but its piece and area of the body dependant. If it's a small piece with a small grouping I prefere a rotary. Also if it's an easy place to tattoo like the calf I may use a rotary. Long power lines I'll use a coil. Upper or back of the arms stomach ribs chest I'll use a coil.
I agree about the feather for me it's right tool for the right job.
No, in fact quieter, they buzz really nice now, there are some videos amongst these posts when the guy tuned them, I was intending to send my other 3 machines off but the 4 I have had done will probably be all I need now.
Heres the link http://helpmetattoo.com/threads/hard-or-soft-with-colour.8749/#post-67320
Last edited:
They do sound sweet, I think I'm gonna have a Sunday morning tuning session. My machines run nice unloaded but I have to apply a lot if tension to the needle bar to avoid a blurry jumping tip, which then means I'm into the. 10v area to overcome the tension.
RemiTatz
Basic
Nice video, thanks for sharing Patch.
Another thing I was going to add about depth as far as tattooing in general, I usually look for a specific sound. The more consistent the hits the better, it's hard to explain but think of it like a blast beat. You're not looking for volume, you're looking for prevision. Should sound kind of like a bee.
Another thing I was going to add about depth as far as tattooing in general, I usually look for a specific sound. The more consistent the hits the better, it's hard to explain but think of it like a blast beat. You're not looking for volume, you're looking for prevision. Should sound kind of like a bee.
I use my middle finger against the tip to keep my depth the same. Also helps with pulling long lines keeping the hand rigid and using the Vaseline to help the middle finger slide. Everybody has their own techniques but I agree that riding the tube on a non diamond tip can make things harder.
Create an account or login to comment
You must be a member in order to leave a comment
Create account
Create an account on our community. It's easy!
Log in
Already have an account? Log in here.
Fast track your progress - The complete online tattooing course for beginners